Stacking the pattern

[Royd 0]

I am loaded at 1.1:1 and know that on any given dive, even if I open a little lower, that eventually I.m going to end up landing last in my particular group.

If I happen to open over the holding area, then I might spiral down to get out of the sky, otherwise, I try to get stacked in the pattern, by going into brakes, knowing that faster canopies are going to pass me anyway.

It seems that most of the time, landing is a free for all, whereas, a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

[riggerrob 643]

If you are only loading your canopy at 1.1 to 1, you are probably one of the slower canopies on your DZ.

Far smarter to open a few hundred feet above everyone else, then hang in half-brakes - until most of them have landed.
The only people slower than you will be students and tandems.
Staying ahead of school parachutes requires you to open A BIT higher than sport jumpers, but keep your head on a swivel to avoid backing-up the school canopies above you.

[popsjumper 2]

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...a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

How right you are!

It's like a parade. The only thing missing is the cotton candy.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[skybytch 273]

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It seems that most of the time, landing is a free for all, whereas, a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

It's not only orderly and a thing of beauty, it's an excellent way to avoid canopy collisions...

[NewGuy2005 53]

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...a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

How right you are!

It's like a parade. The only thing missing is the cotton candy.

And, hopefully, the clowns.

[Royd 0]

Reply To
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...a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

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How right you are!

It's like a parade. The only thing missing is the cotton candy.

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And, hopefully, the clowns.

No, seriously. Does there seem to be any effort at teaching about stacking the pattern, other than an occasional word.

[billvon 3,107]

>Does there seem to be any effort at teaching about stacking the pattern,
>other than an occasional word.

I cover it in my "graduate" class. I used to give it at the same time I did water training. Nowadays Jim Wallace does water training so I haven't done it in a while.

[Royd 0]

If you are only loading your canopy at 1.1 to 1, you are probably one of the slower canopies on your DZ.

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Far smarter to open a few hundred feet above everyone else, then hang in half-brakes - until most of them have landed.
The only people slower than you will be students and tandems.
Staying ahead of school parachutes requires you to open A BIT higher than sport jumpers, but keep your head on a swivel to avoid backing-up the school canopies above you.

I'm usually with the first group out of the door, so we are breaking off at 4k and opening at 3k, and I am the slowest in the group.

Most of the time, the landing patterns seems to be helter skelter.

Maybe it's because I'm still new in the sport, and I'm usually the last one in with my group, but when the pattern does get stacked with everyone evenly spaced horizontally and vertically, I just want to say,"Yea Baby, that's what I'm talkin' about."

[JohnRich 4]

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when the pattern does get stacked with everyone evenly spaced horizontally and vertically, I just want to say,"Yea Baby, that's what I'm talkin' about."

Yes, but then one or more people will start spiraling down and pull out at the same level I'm at, thereby creating the very landing interference that I was trying to avoid.

And if I try to spiral down to get away from them and open up more vertical space again, then they will follow me and do it again.

No one bothers to think ahead or to realize that this jockeying for position is intentional and for good cause. It ain't a game.

Helter skelter is the name of the game. Good luck to everyone.

[rehmwa 2]

My favorite is when the first group out sits in half brakes instead of getting down. This weekend we had that happen a couple times with a visiting team.

If you want out first, then get down and make room. Sitting in a big boat in brakes wins you no friends.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skybytch 273]

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No one bothers to think ahead or to realize that this jockeying for position is intentional.

They will if those of us who do it take the time to explain to them what we are doing and why we are doing it.

Which is where that whole "education" thing comes in. If everybody did it, we could all share the landing area without worrying about killing each other with our canopies...

[phoenixlpr 0]

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My favorite is when the first group out sits in half brakes instead of getting down. This weekend we had that happen a couple times with a visiting team.

I have seen better. A hundred jump wonder was drilling and floating alternately.

That is one ugly way to make traffic for even a C172 load(3).

[AggieDave 6]

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then I might spiral down to get out of the sky

Bad idea, although with good intentions.

There is an area, past the 1000' pattern entry point that is considered the "holding area" (or call it what you want). Head to that area, get into 1/2 brakes or whatever the traffic conditions call for and find your spot in the pattern.

Everyone has a spot in the pattern. Be it at the front or the rear, although sometimes we find ourselves misplaced. When that happens we have to work hard to maintain proper seperation between canopies (vertical and horizontal) to ensure safety.

What that means is sometimes I'll find a jumper with a light (but appropiate) wingloading opening 1000ft lower then me (for whatever reason). Then they start to spiral. Which is fine, except that once I go to full flight, I'm coming out of the sky faster then they can come out of the sky while spiraling. That's fine, just differnet choices in what we like in skydiving. However, it then becomes my decisicion and obligation to go into DEEP brakes and let the unaware jumper continue with their bad decision. That also stacks up the rest of the people behind me (if there are any).

A better choice could have been to head back to the holding area for that low opening jumper, assess whats going on and get a visual on all the canopies that were on the load prior to making a decision to spiral.

The biggest thing to remember is that the decision of where you fit into the pattern starts before you board the plane. Its easy if you're on your home DZ, you see the jumpers and know what they jump. While visiting DZs I look at jumper's rigs and what kind of jump their on in an attempt to determine what kind of canopy they *may* be jumping. That will give me a little better heads up on who might be infront of me in the pattern. It also helps to watch a couple of loads when visiting a new DZ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[flyinchicken 0]

ok, so question, I learned that my 1;1 makes me one of the 3-4 slowest canopies coming down(aside from students). I have come up with a set of Lp's(landing proceedures) that I do on every jump......
1.In the plane ask everyone around me thier wing loading, opening altitude, and dive plan. I then re-asses my exit order.
2. On opening I immediately look around and then turn my canopy perpendicular to jump run. I remain in brakes, while I stow my slider, loosen my chest strap and check my canopy, all the time WATCHING for hot rod camera guys to get past me. I remain in brakes until ALL the faster canopies have past me.
3 unstow my brakes go into landing pattern.

Question, should I be unstowing my brakes and heading to the holding area, instead of making myself slower further away from the dz so that the speedy guys can zoom in before i even get close? Would these proceedures get confusing for jumpers with faster canopies, who only spent 75 jumps loaded 1;1(don't all get huffy, guys downsize wayyyy too fast ALL the time)? Just wondering if there is anything I'm NOT considering.

"Diligent observation leads to pure abstraction". Lari Pittman

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Question, should I be unstowing my brakes and heading to the holding area, instead of making myself slower further away from the dz so that the speedy guys can zoom in before i even get close?

How can you do controllability check without unstowing your brakes?

You can unstow your brakes, do you checks and float after that.

[flyinchicken 0]

I stear with my risers and my harness. First thing i do when I unstow my brakes is flare. any problems aside from a hung toggle would be in evidence. My turn perp to jump run IS partially a controllability check. As long as I unstow my brakes by 2500ft(I pull at 3500) I have plenty of time to go to ep if the canopy doesn't measure up. 400ft in brakes gives a lil gal Lots of breathing space. And this proceedure keeps me out of the way of all the cool fast swoopin dudes.

"Diligent observation leads to pure abstraction". Lari Pittman

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I stear with my risers and my harness. First thing i do when I unstow my brakes is flare. any problems aside from a hung toggle would be in evidence. My turn perp to jump run IS partially a controllability check.

As long as you do not face anything like this

Nice,you might end up with a partially landable canopy under your hard deck.

Know your priorities!

Flying in brakes does not give any advantage at all.

Only thing I would do before check is steer away and avoid collision.

[AggieDave 6]

Check your canopy, but be aware while doing it. If you're trying to fight a tension knot or linetwists and end up flying into another canopy/jumper, then you've got even more problems. Sure they should miss you, BUT I've been next to jumpers kicking out of linetwists while I was kicking out of linetwists. It get "motivating" there for a bit.

After that you should be headed to the holding area and evaluating your place in the pattern (chosen or given). Check the full 360, up and down as well. Check your canopy blind spots with some flat turns. Thats the areas up and behind you, the spot that your canopy covers in your vision.

This is all stuff you're doing at once. I sat down one day and wrote a list of all the things that have to be accomplished to have a good swoop. The difference between the good swoop and good landing was only the part about the turn and dive. The rest was the same. I came up with a list of 40 seperate things you pretty much have to do nearly at once to have a good landing. There's not a good hard-set rule here, it takes a lot of thinking on the fly. However, if you don't even start with a concious landing pattern, with pre planed altitudes and turning points with a holding area, then you're going to have to be figuring those things out while you get all your traffic adjustments done.

Its a lot to do and a lot to think about, but the more you take in to account for before you even get on the plane, the easier it is.

Physically draw your pattern out on a copy of the DZ. Draw in your exit point and projected opening point. Draw your holding area. Now, before gearing up, look at the load list and think about the people on your load. You'll pick out the problem children and know to watch for them, you'll pick out the guy that hangs in brakes on final shooting an accuracy approach and the other gal that does S-turns to hit the peas. You'll see the two FFers that wanna-be swoop their stilettos and can't fly a pattern for crap. And that's your load, you know what to look for, you know what you're doing and you're ahead of the game. Now the rest of the canopy stuff will be easier since you have a good plan.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[flyinchicken 0]

hiya Aggie,

ok you have COMPLETELY lost me. In my frist post in this thread I gave the order of what I as a small girl under a normal sized canopy(1:1) does to stay out of the way of the faster canopies. During ALL of my proceedures my head is ALWAYS on a swivel and I am much more shy than most about getting my canopy close to anyone else. My hard deck is 2000 ft and i usually unstow my brakes at 2500 and all the fast guys on my load have landed before I even get to that. Leaves me with 3 - 4 canopies to keep my eyes on. Pretty easy to find your place in the landing order in that. I fly a pattern on every jump 1000 - 500 - 250 Pretty boring but I like it that way. So I fail to see the relevence in your statement. If I were under a higher wing loading I would re-evalute forsure. For now this is what I have been doing.

"Diligent observation leads to pure abstraction". Lari Pittman

[AFFI 0]

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hiya Aggie,
ok you have COMPLETELY lost me. In my frist post in this thread I gave the order of what I as a small girl under a normal sized canopy(1:1) does to stay out of the way of the faster canopies.

Don't think Dave was ragging on you in particular (he really is a nice guy), but rather, giving everyone who might read some things to consider. There is a lot of good information in that post.

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My hard deck is 2000 ft and i usually unstow my brakes at 2500

Curious about this point - If you generally deploy at 3,500, are you busy with other things before you un-stow your toggles at 2,500?

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[flyinchicken 0]

watching for other canopies, stowing my slider, loosening my chest strap enjoying the view =) Basically letting all he fast dudes have the air to themselves.

"Diligent observation leads to pure abstraction". Lari Pittman

[Booster_MPS 0]

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watching for other canopies, stowing my slider, loosening my chest strap enjoying the view =) Basically letting all he fast dudes have the air to themselves.

Your control check should come before all of that as well as knowing your exact altitude. If you fail a control check 1,000 feet lower, then everything else did not matter. You could run into a HUGE spinning problem when you unstow brakes.

What if you got a tiny loop of brake line caught in your glove?

Just think about it and stay safe man!

[flyinchicken 0]

LOL read ALL my posts, control check is done two parts. and before my hard deck of 2000.

"Diligent observation leads to pure abstraction". Lari Pittman

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I am loaded at 1.1:1 and know that on any given dive, even if I open a little lower, that eventually I.m going to end up landing last in my particular group.

If I happen to open over the holding area, then I might spiral down to get out of the sky, otherwise, I try to get stacked in the pattern, by going into brakes, knowing that faster canopies are going to pass me anyway.

It seems that most of the time, landing is a free for all, whereas, a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty.

Any thoughts?

I want to mention something that has not appeared on this thread.

If you do a 'hang in the sky routine' at a DZ with multi-turbines, perhaps dropping every 2-3 minutes, you may find yourself landing with the speedsters from the load after you.

Stacked approaches are a good thing, but keep in mind, your plane might not be the only one in the air.

IOW, what may work fine at a small DZ, will not be the best idea at a busy DZ.

The story of Goldilocks comes to mind.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[AFFI 0]

Goldilocks?