Swedish hijack suspect released

[skreamer 1]

CNN article

Boy the war on terrorism is tough in Sweden... This guy went for flying lessons in South Carolina. Last month he got caught trying to smuggle a handgun onto a flight bound from Sweden to London to go to an Islamic convention. He has a criminal record. He has just been released without charge.

I don't get it.

[billvon 3,107]

Perhaps he actually wasn't trying to hijack the plane? Just a guess.

[QuickDraw 0]

I have a feeling he may be walking home.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[Sebazz1 2]

Maybe he will lead the authorities to some other potential hijakers?

[skreamer 1]

So he still gets released without charge? Regardless of why he tried to smuggle the gun onto the plane, wouldn't that still be breaking the law? I still don't understand how he could be released without charge.

Of course his ethnic, religious and aviation backgrounds are totally co-incidental too. My bad for assuming that a fundamentalist Arab Muslim who had taken flying lessons and tried to smuggle a handgun onto an airliner was intending to hijack it. Guess I got sucked into the whole mass hysteria thing.

[skreamer 1]

And of course they are stupid enough not to know that there will be shed-loads of surveillance on this guy???

[quade 4]

In this time how would a person go about proving he didn't plan on hijacking a plane onto which he had just smuggled a gun?

Ok, I can see where the Swedish government -might- not be able to prove he was trying to hijack the plane, but to just let him go (he -did- smuggle the gun afterall) sounds kind silly to me as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wlie 0]

Get your flame throwers ready!

I think that every passenger should be allowed to carry a firearm of their choice. Think about it... Would you stick up a donut shop frequented by cops? Would you point a gun at somebody in the shooting range?

Flame away!

My other ride is the relative wind.

[seedy 0]

Let's see, couple of hundred passengers shoot at one hijacker....can you say "explosive decompression"?

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[billvon 3,107]

>So he still gets released without charge?

Depends on the circumstances.

> Regardless of why he tried to smuggle the gun onto the plane,
>wouldn't that still be breaking the law?

Yes, and how he was charged would depend upon the facts of the case. For example, if someone else was using him as a way to smuggle a weapon onto the plane without his knowledge, then I would expect him to be in jail for a while while they prove that and then release him. If they find that he _was_ trying to get it onto the plane, I would expect him to be charged with that. Since I don't know the details of the case I don't know which of the above is true, if either.

>Of course his ethnic, religious and aviation backgrounds are totally
> co-incidental too. My bad for assuming that a fundamentalist Arab
> Muslim who had taken flying lessons and tried to smuggle a
> handgun onto an airliner was intending to hijack it.

Let's take this little test, shall we? Let's say you're in law enforcement and your job is to root our terrorists from 'normal' people. Here are some scenarios:

You have to stop a terrorist who has just killed over 100 people with a homemade bomb. You pull some people over on the highway leading out of town. They are:

-a middle aged white male, formerly in the US military
-a drunk black woman who rants incoherently
-an Arab Muslim male age 18-40.

You recover plans to destroy a local school and kill everyone in it, along with weapons, explosives and antipersonnel mines, from a local home. Three people are suspects:

-an upper class, middle aged Jewish podiatrist
-an undocumented Mexican worker with a bag of knives
-an Arab Muslim male age 18-40.

You hear that someone is about to smuggle an explosive on their person onto an airplane. You eye three suspects:

-a british man named Richard
-a drunk rock musician
-an Arab Muslim male age 18-40.

In each case, if you go after the Arab Muslim, congratulations! You've let a terrorist get away.

Fortunately, most people in law enforcement are not so gullible (at least most of them aren't.) Evil comes in all shapes and forms. If it's not an Arab male it will be a Miami podiatrist, or a middle age army dropout, or a british guy with explosives in his shoe. Or, in the future, a North Korean terrorist or a Yugoslavian assasin or a Venezuelan foreign agent. Any attempt to be more lenient on any segment of the population will give these terrorists a better chance of causing the _next_ 9/11.

[billvon 3,107]

>can you say "explosive decompression"?

This is largely a myth. Airliners are designed to survive the loss of a window and safely descend to an altitude that has breathable air. The only way to destroy a plane in this way is to hit something vital (i.e. rupture a fuel line and start a fire, or take out several hydraulic systems) or cause a massive structural failure (like getting a cargo door to open.) While it is in no sense good to poke holes in pressurized aircraft, there have been plenty of cases of pressurized aircraft in wartime getting shot full of holes and landing safely.

[quade 4]

Quote

The only way to destroy a plane in this way is to hit something vital . . .

Well, isn't overpressure something to worry about with 100 bullets being fired all at once?

How large was the charge that brought down Pan Am 103? I think it was pretty dang small and what did it was the overpressure if I'm not mistaken.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,107]

>Well, isn't overpressure something to worry about with 100 bullets
> being fired all at once?

If they are fired simultaneously from 100 guns, then perhaps. Individually? Not a big issue. We're talking about a tiny amount of explosive, with the amounts measured in grams.

[kmcguffee 0]

OK Bill, take this little test for me and tell me how it turns out.

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:

a. Olga Corbitt
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


2. In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


3. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


4. In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:

a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:

a. Captain Kid
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


9. In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


11. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonny and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

Is there a pattern emerging? I'm not saying that I agree with blind profiling but please quit using the same old tired argument. It is not as simple as you try to make it and some types of profiling are necessary and useful.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[skypuppy 1]

Wasn't the british guy named Richard an 'Arab Muslim'? That was my understanding...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[billvon 3,107]

>Is there a pattern emerging?

Sure there is. I could make the same pattern appear for Japanese, Chinese, and blacks. I could list 20 murders in NYC, and have the answers all turn out to be black men. I could list another 20 and have them all turn out to be white men. That wouldn't prove a thing, and you know it. The only way to make sure you get terrorists is to apply your precautions equally to everyone.

>I'm not saying that I agree with blind profiling but please quit using
> the same old tired argument.

Which tired old argument? The "racism is bad" argument?

>It is not as simple as you try to make it and some types of profiling
> are necessary and useful.

Yep. Last week they pulled an Indian doctor (US citizen) off a plane, handcuffed him, and held him in a cell for three hours. His crime - he had brown skin and was on the plane when a white man got agitated and had to be subdued. I suppose he was the closest thing to an Arab they had on board. Sounds necessary and useful to me. That'll stop them terrorists.

[riddler 0]

I also found it interesting that bullets can't really ignite jet fuel. So even if the bullet went into the wing, or some other fuel tank, it wouldn't explode. Another hollywood myth debunked. I'm really starting to regret watching so much TV when I was a kid.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Remster 30]

for what its worth, he was not released without charges. he plead guilty to the gun carrying charge according to the BBC1 news coverage I saw.

Remster

[fudd 0]

Where have you heard that he was released without charges? According to Norwegian newspapers he is still charged for violating gun laws, aviation sabotage and airport sabotage. He could risk life in prison.
However, the investigation so far has not given reason for prolonged custody, but there will still probably be a trial.

How would our world become if we don't respect a persons civil right because we suspect him of being a terrorist? Liberty for all will be hurting, or maybe just liberty for people of arabic heritage.

I think it's just as much concern that the USA don't seem to respect the conventions of the international community. "Geneva convention? Oh this is not prisoners of war, they are detainees. UN wont support an attack on Irak, so what? We'll attack anyway!"

This kind of attitudes concerns me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[skreamer 1]

Quote

Where have you heard that he was released without charges?

I read it on CNN, I pasted a link to the article in my original post. Did you read the article?

[skreamer 1]

OK Bill, being suspicious of fundamentalist Arab Muslims who have taken flying lessons and then try to smuggle a handgun onto a plane obviously makes me a gullible racist. Tell you what, I'll ask my Syrrian house-mate who I've been living with for the last three years.

I think you've been hugging that tree a _little_ too tightly dude.

[Scratch 0]

Splinters in soft tissue will make a person cranky

[christoofar 0]

YeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHHHH!!!!!

I bet if we put all those Muslim males between 17 and 40 in a quite room with study carols and they take this extremeist test we will no longer have terroism in the U.S. (rolling eyes):

1) I am a
a) Arab
b) Guy who just looks Arab
c) I don't know what you're talking about, may I go now?

2) I am carrying (circle any that apply):
a) Aeronautical charts
b) The Koran
c) Pictures of Barbara Bush with mustaches drawn on them
d) I don't know what you're talking about, may I go now?

3) I hate
a) Christians
b) Jews
c) Mexicans
d) Black People
e) The Pope
f) Barbara Streisand
g) I don't know what you're talking about, may I go now?

4) The reason why I have entered U.S. territory:
a) Because I am a Muslim male extremist. Resistance is futile.
b) See Babs in concert for the last time
c) I want to defecate on it
d) I don't know what you're talking about, may I go now?



Heh.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[skreamer 1]

You're very judgemental, I condemn you for that.

[kmcguffee 0]

Quote

Which tired old argument? The "racism is bad" argument?

Throwing out the race card huh. Is that supposed to make me run scared? If you're going to use that then I'll have to start calling you a Communist Pinko Liberal.

OK, let's talk about profiling. It was used to find Dahmer, Bundy, and JW Gacy. It is used successfully every day to find suspects in kidnapping cases.

If an abortion clinic is blown up and you have no suspects and no evidence how are you going to narrow the suspects? Should you start with 90 year old ladies in wheel chairs or white male christian fundamentalists? Somehow I don't think you would have a problem with that type of profiling would you.

Lets don't get stupid with our tree hugging Bill. Profiling has its place. Don't imply that I am racist when you really don't have a clue what you are talking about.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin