CIA Assasinates US Citizen

[happythoughts 0]

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Maybe it was Richard Gere and he was giving his popular "wayward brother" speech.

Was that the speech he attempted to give in Madison Square Garden to the firefighters and policemen? Lucky for him Hillary was there, it brought him one rung down on the fool ladder.

That's the one. Sometimes, it's hard to get a good receptive audience in NY. But I'm thinking that if you were in NY just after 9-11, maybe characterizing the people who destroyed the WTC as basically good was an almost fatal case of the dumbass.

[mnischalke 0]

That poor som bitch. He was prolly minding his own. Just hanging with his homies, burnin a blunt and getting his grove on to some Dr. Dre pumping over a phat 10,000 watt system in that lowered Cherokee with the 24-inch gold wheels. Just cruising cross the desert, looking for some bitches. Then WHACK. They all dead.

Poor som bitch. (pouring beer)

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[cgross 1]

This has the bad beginings of what lloks like a political debate coming. I am going to just sit back now and watch it unfurl.

[skybytch 273]

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I couldn't agree with you more, so I think next time they bust a drug dealer, they should just shoot him on the spot, including whomever may be with him/her.

If that drug dealer was known to be a part of a group that has killed thousands of other people and continues to do so even after being warned that type of activity will be severely punished... then yes. They should just shoot him on the spot. And if an innocent someone hanging out with him gets hurt or killed, that's tragic. But I don't think it's real likely that anyone hanging out with said drug dealer would know nothing about what he does/did.

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It amazes me how many of you just do not care.

It's not that I don't care. It's that I have no sympathy for traitors to my country, or for terrorists, or for those who aid and abet terrorists, or for anyone who hangs out with terrorists.

And this, my friends, is why I usually stay the hell out of political threads.

[freeflir29 0]

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Clay and others, I've read you recently stating that you'd prefer the goverment to stay out of your life as much as possible. How much more invasive can you get than having some shmoe at the CIA decide to ram a hell fire down your throat. I just don't get how you people don't see the dark and dangerous path that we're embarking on.

OK...would it make you feel better if they trumped up some charges of espionage, planted some evidence, and sentenced him to death? That way...he went through the court system and was found guilty. If the government wants you they WILL come after you. One way or the other.


PS..This IS why the people should own guns. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with "Hunting Rights."

[Zlew 0]

You also have to remember that our soft spot is something that our enemies will use against us. Remember in Iraq in 91 when they would put civilians on bridges so we wouldn't bomb them? Or put SAM's in places of warship, Radar on top of school houses, and heavy equipment inside residental areas? You think they are not doing so right now? In WW2 if they needed a target like that taken out they sent a fleet of bombers over and coverd the area around the target (trying to hit the target of course) and many times bombed square miles of land/city before they took the target out. That was ok...that was war. Now when we find ourselves on the news when we send one lazer guieded bomb to take out the SAM on top of a school house in the middle of the night...

Z

[happythoughts 0]

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If I'm hanging out with a drug dealer when they get busted, I'm probably going to get busted along with them even if I knew nothing about the nature of their "business."

I couldn't agree with you more, so I think next time they bust a drug dealer, they should just shoot him on the spot, including whomever may be with him/her.

I think that everyone understood what Lisa was saying. If you are with drug dealers, you probably are one too. Twisting her analogy into something totally different is kinda weird.

No one mentioned shooting drug dealers or jay-walkers or sidewalk-spitters. Totally different level of offense that we are talking about. I think you know that.

Her analogy is truer for Al-Queda operatives than drug dealers though. You can meet a drug dealer in a bar, get to be a buddy and maybe hang out with them. High level Al-Queda operations planners are not going to "hang out" with you and give you a ride to Wal-Mart. This guy was a bad guy.

He got whacked. Good riddance. No trial or jury necessary.

[PhillyKev 0]

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OK...would it make you feel better if they trumped up some charges of espionage and sentenced him to death? That way...he went through the court system and was found guilty. If the government wants you they WILL come after you. One way or the other.

Exactly, and if we don't keep the government in check regarding some of its activities, at least the ones we know about, then its only a short trip to fascism.

[Muenkel 0]

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Ciels-

Where are the "pinks"? When you sign off with me it is "Ciels and Pinks"! I expect nothing less.

BTW, I have no idea what you mean by "Ciels and Pinks".

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Chris

[Luminous 0]

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I just don't get how you people don't see the dark and dangerous path that we're embarking on.

Maybe if Mr. Hijazi had considered this he wouldn't have been associating with know terrorist, and would be alive today. US citizen or not, you hang with terrorist, you can expect to be treated as one.

And don't think for on milisecond that he didn't know who he was associating with.

And while I don't necessarily agree with some of the actions currently being taken by our government and governments of other countries, I don't forget we have been forced to act.

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/wtc/photo.shtml

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/aa77/photo.shtml

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/ua93/photo.shtml

BSBD
Larry

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If that drug dealer was known to be a part of a group that has killed thousands of other people and continues to do so even after being warned that type of activity will be severely punished... then yes. They should just shoot him on the spot.

Great, well I guess the police departments around the US can start shooting any drug dealer. Speaking of that, I think we can agree that most drug dealers are responsible for quite a few deaths amongst their customers. So, since their customers are aiding a known member of a group responsible for killing thousands, we should really just shoot everybody who we even suspect of using drugs of any kind.

So, everybody, think of all those people who use drugs, even those you only suspect of doing drugs and kill them.

Sounds pretty insane to me, but really is in the same light, just closer to home. Once again, to me it is really dangerous if we allow the CIA or any government branch to just start killing on suspicion. But I have this feeling that most of you don't care until they start killing americans on american soil because there is a suspicion.

Some dqays I am happy I live in Canada, even if we only get to skydive a couple of months out of teh year....

[freeflir29 0]

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Exactly, and if we don't keep the government in check regarding some of its activities, at least the ones we know about, then its only a short trip to fascism.

I think we are doin OK so far.....

[PhillyKev 0]

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He got whacked. Good riddance. No trial or jury necessary.

Ok, so for those of you who think this was fine, luckily you agree with the CIA operative who decided this US citizen should be presumed guilty and assasinated. Do you know who that CIA guy was? Do you know how he came about his decision? Do you know if maybe he thinks jews or blacks or school teachers are the enemies of the country?

We live in a society that has always believed the rights of the individual supersede the rights of the collective. Our basic principals of freedom are based on the belief that it is better to let 100 criminals go free rather than unjustly punish an innocent man. But I guess that doesn't matter anymore. We are becoming what our enemies want us to become...like them.

[narcimund 0]

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But I have this feeling that most of you don't care until they start killing americans on american soil because there is a suspicion.

I think you're overestimating the American public's ability to think for themselves. When the CIA or army starts (openly) assassinating American citizens on American soil, Americans will cheer, "They MUST HAVE deserved it! Hurrah!"

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[PhillyKev 0]

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PS..This IS why the people should own guns. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with "Hunting Rights."

100% agreement with that

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I think that everyone understood what Lisa was saying. If you are with drug dealers, you probably are one too. Twisting her analogy into something totally different is kinda weird.

I agree, the big difference is, if you are a suspected drug dealer you have a chance to defend yourself. Innocent until proven guilty. In this case it is suspicious, so we kill you. All this is based on what the papers are reporting and what the CIA has released. I think we can all agree that we are usually not happy on the track record of the media and the CIA when it comes to honesty. SO why is it that most of you blindly swallow what is put in front of you when it comes to what is reported about al-qaida and the taliban?

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He got whacked. Good riddance. No trial or jury necessary.

That is what scares me most, where does that end?

For those of you who claim collateral damage, please understand that that is exactly what al qaida could say about the thousands of people dead in their attacks. Collateral damage to the message they are trying to get accross.......

[narcimund 0]

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We live in a society that has always believed the rights of the individual supersede the rights of the collective.

Oh, that is SO 20th century!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[happythoughts 0]

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Exactly, and if we don't keep the government in check regarding some of its activities, at least the ones we know about, then its only a short trip to fascism.

Ok. This is one of the ones we know about. It is in the paper, right? I've thought about it. I approve. The govt is in check and doing what I want it to.

To any secret govt operatives reading this thread, "Thanks for blowing up this murdering low-life scum pile and any American friends he had."

It was really Joe DiMaggio on the grassy noll. Joe shot JFK for fooling around with Marilyn. Classic jealous husband stuff. With all this knowledge, I had to keep the govt from reading my thoughts. I built a tin-foil hat. I was able to create a working model after the plans were secretly leaked through the counter culture film Wizard of Oz.

[Luminous 0]

you agree with the CIA operative who decided this US citizen should be presumed guilty and assasinated
***

Not being privy to the CIA meetings, I can only go on assumption, but I'm pretty sure the target was "a senior al-Qaida leader, Abu Ali al-Harithi, who is suspected of masterminding the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole.".

Mr. Hijazi was hangin with the wrong crowd.

[freeflir29 0]

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For those of you who claim collateral damage, please understand that that is exactly what al qaida could say about the thousands of people dead in their attacks

Uuuummmm......where was their military target?

[Michele 1]

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Yes, I think there's a 99.9999999% chance this guy was a "bad guy".

Actually, in the US, that is prolly enough to convict him. Reasonable doubt and absolute certainty are two different things. If you believe that "there's a 99.9999999% chance", that, at least in my mind, constitutes the standard of reasonable doubt overcome.

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But think about this a second, and I don't care what the circumstances are, this scares the crap out of me way more than any terrorists....THE CIA MURDERED A US CITIZEN

O.K., here's where I lose my diplomatic status....

No, Kev, they didn't. They targeted someone who was known to be a high level operative in the AQ. Hijazi was with him. Hijazi holds dual citizenship (from an unknown middle east country - they haven't disclosed the other ccountry yet, just id'd it as a ME). He was in the US for an unknown amount of time. Hijazi was killed in a strike by a hellfire missle. I, for one, am damned pleased that the CIA waited until there was a very small chance of the euphimistic "collateral damage" and left the row of houses (I'm making that up - I don't know where they were coming from...but the point remains) wherein many others could have been killed right along with those 5 or 6. The way it was done limited that chance - and protected those who were not playing with the bad guys. The CIA was obviously taking extreme care, inasmuch as the timing of the strike and the confining of it to as little extraneous death as possible. I bet you didn't see it quite that way.

Now, IIRC, back in October of 2001, there was some serious discussion of who made up AQ, and where the "sleeper cells" were. We have since seen several cells disrupted - arrested in NY and OR, among others - they were made up of dual citizens and American citizens. The difference is simple: they were here in the US, and this cell was in Yemen.

Before you get all crazy on me , there is something else to really consider. Had this been done without - repeat without - the Yemeni government's approval and assistence, there would have been such a hue and cry as to have alerted us of that fact. Therefore, as it was a collective assault, on territory outside of the US, I think that there are other things to consider.

When I travel, I do not retain the same rights as I do when I am in this country. I am subjected to the laws and legal systems of whichever country I visit. Period. My rights as a US citizen stop once I pass the border. Remember those christian missionaries who were being held just prior to our initial response in Afghanistan? Know about all those children who's parents take them to other countries and the US parent cannot get them back? It's because there is a cessation of rights once we leave the US. How arrogant to think that my rights must be adhered to in another country. I do not know what rights suspects have in Yemen. I don't think they are comparable to the rights we hold here, but I could be wrong.

If your issue is simply that the CIA, in conjunction with another government (Yemen) took out someone who was, in your words, "99.99999999%" likely to not be Mr. Rogers, in another country, said country which has recently seen some serious terroristic activity, I think you may not be seeing the big picture with as much detail as I know you are capable of.

Again, Kev, I understand your position, I see your side. I don't agree with it at all.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[wingnut 0]

is it me or does his citicen status seem wierd to anyone??? it's my understanding that if you arn't citizen at birth (birth in us, birth by u.s. parents or blood relitive) you have to renounce your citizen ship in another country9and live in u.s. for 7 years or is it 15) to gain u.s. ctizenship??? so how could he hold dual citizenship?? and does it really make a difrence if he is american or not.... if he was shooting at me or hanging with people shooting at me his nationality wouldn't mean shit to me.. (shooting is an example here)

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"i have no reader's digest version"

[skybytch 273]

Sigh. Nothing like taking a simple analogy and turning it completely inside out.

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Great, well I guess the police departments around the US can start shooting any drug dealer.

I sincerely doubt that any police department anywhere in the US is going to change their policies based solely on what I think.

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Speaking of that, I think we can agree that most drug dealers are responsible for quite a few deaths amongst their customers.

The customers of drug dealers choose to use products which have been known to cause death. A bit different than those who simply went to work one morning and were murdered by the direct actions of terrorists.

[Muenkel 0]

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I think you're overestimating the American public's ability to think for themselves. When the CIA or army starts (openly) assassinating American citizens on American soil, Americans will cheer, "They MUST HAVE deserved it! Hurrah!"

Gosh, when did you become such a cynic? I choose to believe that for the most part American citizens are alot smarter than that.

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Chris

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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We have since seen several cells disrupted - arrested in NY and OR, among others - they were made up of dual citizens and American citizens. The difference is simple: they were here in the US, and this cell was in Yemen

So, let me get this right. If they are in the US we can't kill them, but if they are in any other country, we can kill them...makes perfect sense to me. Why would they even arrest people in the US then, might as well just wait till they leave the country and then kill them. Saves you american taxpayers some money in court and jail expenses.