goose491 0 #126 November 13, 2002 Wait a minute... back to the definitions of war for a moment... It seems there was a hang-up on the 'declare' vs. 'undeclared' issue... However, if one side declares war, is there not War? Does the other side have to declare it aswell? Al-Queda declare Jihad!!! Religious WAR on America! Bush declared war on 'terrorism' so that he could broaden his targets knowing fully well that a war on "Al-Queda" would prove to be much more difficult. So, in fact, we are at war even by your prefered definition bill. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #127 November 13, 2002 Quote the reason they used the CIA for the op is because they can act autonomously with less beauracracy Autonomously....That's a streach. Less beauracracy..certainly. Let me tell you about the "checklist" that had to be filled out by a Forward Air Controller before he could conduct a mission in Kosovo. Well....first of all he had to have a request and initials from the "Local commander." Then he had to pass it up the chain. Since the local commander was probably a company commander here's the steps it had to take. Company commander requests a strike. BN battle captain or S-3 recieves the request and has to find the BN commander to get his sign off. Then it passes to the Brigade where the same thing happens. Thank God there weren't any Division elements there so it goes straight to "Red Dog" which is the HQ in Italy. It goes into Red Dog/Air Support Operations Center/Joint Air Operations Center and finally must trickle it's way all the way to the CINC (Commander of that entire area....Like Schwartzakopf in DS) So it gets there....he makes his decision and then it has to trickle all the way back down to the FAC on the ground. How long did that just take? I don't know either but I can tell you that Army guys don't ask for Air Support when things are going "well." The CIA field Ops people have a MUCH shorter and less complicated command structure. Some of the Special Ops people have more effective command structures to a certain level but I don't think they are plugged into the NCA (National Command Authority IE President/Vice President) quite so closely. They do have advantages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #128 November 13, 2002 QuoteWhich to me means with less checks and accountability than a standard military op. Less does not mean none. Their rules of engagement are different, but they do exist. Several articles and statements made have shown that their target of opportunity list had been approved by those outside the agency, may not have been the boss, but it was someone on his team. JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #129 November 13, 2002 Quote PS. You guys know that technically you are not at war...right. No war has been declared. The war against terrorism has the same standing as the war against drugs or the war against illileracy. Justin, See here that a very real war has very officially been declared. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1603178.stm Nick My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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