Unappreciated!

[Gawain 0]

Many of you have seen this, I hope. In light of some distrurbing posts I've observed lately, I thought I would defer to a very insightful Canadian who broadcast this on CFRB-Toronto in June 1973:

This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - - not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those.

********Background********

On June 5 1973, Canadian radio commentator Gordon Sinclair decided he'd had enough of the stream of criticism and negative press recently directed at the United States of America by foreign journalists (primarily over America's long military involvement in Vietnam, which had ended with the signing of the Paris Peace Accords six months earlier). When he arrived at radio station CFRB in Toronto that morning, he spent twenty minutes dashing off a two-page editorial defending the USA against its carping critics which he then delivered in a defiant, indignant tone during his "Let's Be Personal" spot at 11:45 AM that day.

The unusualness of any foreign correspondent -- even one from a country with such close ties to the USA as Canada -- delivering such a caustic commentary about those who would dare to criticize the USA is best demonstrated by the fact that even thirty years later, a generation of Americans too young to remember Sinclair's broadcast doubt that this piece (which has been circulating on the Internet in the slightly-altered form quoted above as something "recently" printed in a Toronto newspaper) is real. It is real, and it received a great deal of attention in its day. After Sinclair's editorial was rebroadcast by a few American radio stations, it spread like wildfire all over the country. It was played again and again (often superimposed over a piece of inspirational music such as "Battle Hymn of the Republic" or "Bridge Over Troubled Waters"), read into the Congressional Record multiple times, and finally released on a record (titled "The Americans"), with all royalties donated to the American Red Cross. (A Windsor/Detroit radio broadcaster named Byron MacGregor recorded and released an unauthorized version of the piece which hit the record stores before Sinclair's official version; an infringement suit was avoided when MacGregor agreed to donate his profits to the Red Cross as well).

Sinclair passed away in 1984, but he will long be remembered on both sides of the U.S.-Canadian border -- both for his contributions to journalism, and for his loudly proclaiming a friendship that few at the time were willing to embrace.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[freeflir29 0]

www.snopes.com/quotes/sinclair.htm



Wow...Snopes even says it's true.

[SudsyFist 0]

playing devil's advocate here, how many of y'all really appreciate help from someone who subsequently expects you to bend over on command, sans reacharound?

methinks that's the pervading attitude when it comes to u.s. benevolence: quid pro quo.

steve

[Gawain 0]

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playing devil's advocate here, how many of y'all really appreciate help from someone who subsequently expects you to bend over on command, sans reacharound?

You raise and interesting point. Let's examine one widely accepted principle:

In the arena of international affairs, the Europeans have far greater experience in the field, and thus, by default have greater insight, and a better "grip" than we Americans.

I submit that this statement is half-true. The Europeans have far more experience in the field. In terms of ability and results for effort expended, I question the results. Why do we assume they're so adept at foreign policy, so superior to us simplistic, moralistic Americans?

When it comes to the middle east, the Europeans have been engaged eons before we were. However, it's been a messy state of affairs. The same holds true with real national security threats, handled poorly.

In the 1930s, FDR assessed the threat that Nazi Germany would hold over Europe and potentially the world, long before and far more accurately than our European allies, whose approach was to appease and use a gentle touch. The result was a failure of the League of Nations, and the whole of Europe, North Africa and parts of Asia were swallowed by Germany.

After WWII, it was Presidents Truman, through Reagan that assessed the threat of the Soviet Bloc far more accurately than their European counterparts. Unfortunately, those memories fade. Check out BBCi online, read about the reactions of the former Warsaw Pact countries that have been invited to join NATO, they're elated. They can't wait! They're only too happy to throw off the last rags of oppression that their former socialist/communist masters beat them with. It was that bad. We were, indeed, right again.

Are there other examples? Sure...Grenada for one. We were aware of the Cuban build up, and so were the other island nations of the West Indies. Unfortunately, it was almost too late when they begged Reagan to mount an invasion.

There are a few more, and not always done well either (Panama, Vietnam).

To your original point of the pervading attitude -- it hasn't always been a fair trade. I'll grant you that. We forgave Billions of debt with Egypt so they would support the coalition during the Gulf War. I think they got the better end of the bargain. We gave Israel Patriot Missiles, which were not effective, yes, they got the sh*t end of the stick.

I don't think we're asking for everyone to bend over, but I do think we are using some brutally simplistic diplomacy to show a pattern of activity over the last 100 years.

Let's look at other issues, I would rather see us continue to fight a losing battle in the war on drugs than see a "needle park" subsidized by my govt. I would rather see us act unilaterally like we did in Bosnia than see reports of genocide (those were Muslims in those graves, by the way). I would rather see our organizations continue to give food and aid as best as possible to the nations that receive it still (AmeriCares, Oxfam-America, Direct Relief Int'l, etc) despite opposing forces to stop the aid (i.e. Somalia).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[CrazyThomas 0]

How many countries have invaded the US because they disagree with our political structure?
How many countries are inspecting our military strongholds because the US is stockpiling nuclear weapons?
How many countries are wrought with frivilous law-suits?
How many countries claim "Freedom of speech", but still send their own citizens to jail if the wrong thing is said?
Do you understand the problem, or are you just trying to be patriotic, and support Uncle Sam no matter what he does?
Peace,
Thomas

[skycop 0]

Right on Gawain, I could'nt have put it better, You made sensible statements, backed by facts. The other posts are broad generalizations based on emotion despite fact! Most protesting nay-sayers enjoy their freedoms as they chant against America, go figure. As for crazythomas, go hit the bong again dude, and read a little history!

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Jimbo 0]

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How many countries have invaded the US because they disagree with our political structure?

The idea of an invasion suggests forced entry, I think any country is welcome to try. We just happen to be better at it than most.

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How many countries are inspecting our military strongholds because the US is stockpiling nuclear weapons?

What's the point? We already admit to having nuclear, checmical, and biological weapons. It's not exactly a big secret, in many cases the location of the stockpiles are a matter of public record.

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How many countries are wrought with frivilous law-suits?

What does this have to do with anything?

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How many countries claim "Freedom of speech", but still send their own citizens to jail if the wrong thing is said?

Care to support that statement with an example?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[CrazyThomas 0]

nope. I don't care to tell about my life more than I have to. I have been to jail, because I said the wrong thing. I do not want to go back, so I am learning to keep my mouth shut more.
If I kept my mouth shut more often, sure, less people would hate me or dislike me. I would cause myself less problems. And, I would not have gone to jail already.
But, somehow, for some reason, I think I should tell people at least some of the things I know. Maybe I am trying to help? Does anyone care to listen, or should I stop posting here also?
That would just be one more place I am not welcome. That's fine, and it would make my life easier, simpler, and less stressful.
And some people still have the impression I don't think about what I say before I say it. pffff...keep dreaming. I wish I could speak that freely.
Go hit the bong again? I would if I could. Then, maybe I wouldn't even want to talk. I would be busy taking a vacation in Stoner-ville.
Peace,
Thomas

[Gawain 0]

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How many countries have invaded the US because they disagree with our political structure?

Because a full scale invasion would mean certain defeat, we have been targets of terrorism and destruction from the World Trade Center in early 90s and 2001, Africa, Lebanon, ad infinitum. These attacks are driven by pure hatred for our political policies and way of life.

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How many countries are inspecting our military strongholds because the US is stockpiling nuclear weapons?

None, and they do not need to. We have declared our stockpile and drove the charter for the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty because of what we have learned from our extensive research on this technology.

Quote

How many countries are wrought with frivilous law-suits?

UK and Ireland have plenty of personal injury and claims chugging through their system. I couldn't check some other sites because I don't speak the language. Every system with some thread of "common law" has provisions for personal claims.

Quote

How many countries claim "Freedom of speech", but still send their own citizens to jail if the wrong thing is said?

You wouldn't ask if you didn't have an example, so please offer it. I can not think of any. Give me an example, please.

Quote

Do you understand the problem, or are you just trying to be patriotic, and support Uncle Sam no matter what he does?
Peace,
Thomas

What do you think the problem is? I am simply pointing out that for others to critique so blatantly, without some inward reflection, is sheer arrogance and is sorely misguided. Yes, I am patriotic for this country, warts and all. I don't have to like everything that goes on, but I can accept it. What I deliberately have trouble accepting is the "soap-box" from folks pointing the finger, while ignoring the three pointed back at them.

Peace....

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[CrazyThomas 0]

Examples of speech that can get me put in jail?
These are all hypothetical, and do not reflect my views.
I hate you because you are a faggot!--hate speech
I hate you n---er!--discrimination
If you don't have sex with me, I will fire you!--while that may not put me in jail, I can lose my job over this.
I have a bomb, and am going to blow something up.---No, I don't and would never do such a cowardly thing. But, even saying so would be a breach of national security these days.
These do not reflect my views. I am friends with several openly gay people. I have a best friend who is black, so I don't even think of the n-word when talking to people of different colors.
Sexual Harrasment? Brings law suits. and it should. this behavior should not be tolerated.
A bomb? Smart terrorists like Osama Bin Laden do not announce their plans. Someone who announces a plan like this does not really want to follow through, but are simply crying for attention.
Those are some examples of things to go to jail for saying.
Hope that clarifies things.
Peace,
Thomas

[Michele 1]

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I hate you because you are a faggot!--hate speech

Actually, you are free to say that. Saying that won't get you put in jail...unless you're saying it while whopping on someone who is gay. Then, that phrase would be used as a sentence enhancer, and would be used to demonstrate motive for whopping on him/her.

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I hate you n---er!--discrimination

See above, same scenario

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If you don't have sex with me, I will fire you!--while that may not put me in jail, I can lose my job over this.

It will put you in jail if you were touching her at the time. But it's true about the job thing...as it should be.

Quote

I have a bomb, and am going to blow something up.---But, even saying so would be a breach of national security these days.

But it would've put you in jail before, as well. Not just "these days".

There is a difference between "free speech" and shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. (Famous Supreme Court case on that one. I don't recall it right now...sorry - maybe one of the legal eagles could point you in the right direction).

As to Gawain's original post, what the heck is wrong with being patriotic? I have yet to understand why being patriotic is not acceptable...and the essay was a great piece of writing when it came out, and is even more applicable today.

There are times I would like to see those folks who benefit from American help (financially or physically) actually either a) pay it back (financially) or b) help us back when we have a class 5 tornado hit, or a 9 point eq. Or even offer, for that matter. But instead, we get lambasted and told our leader is a moron.

Just my .02

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Examples of speech that can get me put in jail?
These are all hypothetical, and do not reflect my views......

I can't believe you actually think that "hate speech" puts you jail. It's the crime that will throw away the key (and rightly so).

Bomb threats and the like are not protected by the right to free speech. I'm sorry you did not know that. As soon as you infer harm, or danger, free speech no longer applies.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Scoby 0]

Quote

But instead, we get lambasted and told our leader is a moron.

Well, he's either:

a. a moron
b. a machiavelian cunning disguising himself as a moron

Neither is really appealing.

For what it's worth, the US actually does get plenty of gratitude for its aid, and deservedly so. In addition, most people in the world truly like Americans and American culture. What they generally object to is the self-serving and hypocritical foreign policy and the indifference to international law.

[Michele 1]

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a. a moron
b. a machiavelian cunning disguising himself as a moron

Actually, he is neither. A moron is a term used to describe someone who has an IQ of between 50 and 75 (I think. Close enough). President Bush does not have that as an IQ. As to being a Machiavelian cunning who disguises himself as a moron, I strongly disagree with you there, as well.

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the US actually does get plenty of gratitude for its aid, and deservedly so. In addition, most people in the world truly like Americans and American culture.

I don't see that at all. I hear constantly about how Canadians blame 9/11 on us...but I don't see them saying "thanks for all the help you've given us over the years. We appreciate it".

I think that there are things to disagree with in the current adminstation, and I certainly think that previous admins screwed the pooch. But I don't think that we deserve the incredible hatred which is thrown at us regularly, from many quarters.

Quote

What they generally object to is the self-serving and hypocritical foreign policy and the indifference to international law.

Again, I am not saying that we are perfect, nor infallible. What I am saying is that the amount of good that we do far outweighs the bad, imho. And our forgeign policies are not always hypocritical, and if any other country was asked to provide as much to the global whole as much as we are, I am sure a lot of the naysayers would redirect their anger at that country.

Ach, I know what I mean, but can't articulate it well. Scoby, I appreciate your opinion, and can see your point. I don't necessarily agree with it wholeheartedly. Can you see mine?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Jimbo 0]

Time to grow up and get a clue there Thomas.

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I hate you because you are a faggot!--hate speech

Will not get you put in jail. In case you haven't noticed, hate speech is very much tolerated in today's America. Ever hear of a little group called the KKK?

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I hate you n---er!--discrimination

That's not discrimination. That's hate speech, discrimination is "I won't give you a job or promotion because you're black/gay/white/Jewish/Catholic/etc..."
It won't get you put in jail.

Quote

If you don't have sex with me, I will fire you!--while that may not put me in jail, I can lose my job over this.

This is sexual harrassment, it is illegal, though I don't think it carries a prison term. In this case it's not about speech, don't you see that?

Quote

Hope that clarifies things.

What it tells me is that you're an angry little man who has chosen to lash out at an easy target, the big bad U.S. of A. I think this makes you look like an ass. Have a nice life.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[cgross 1]

Now I know where the name "Crazy Tom" comes from. This is not a personal attack

[TomAiello 26]

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I hate you because you are a faggot!--hate speech

Actually, you are free to say that. Saying that won't get you put in jail...unless you're saying it while whopping on someone who is gay.

Saying it will get you expelled from a public university in California.

Now there's an example of direct government action with an immediate negative impact on an individual citizen.

I submit that any kind of government action in response to freely exercised speech is, in fact, a violation of the first amendment rights of the citizenry.

First Amendment debate, anyone? I'm a bit of a free speech nazi...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Jimbo 0]

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I'm a bit of a free speech nazi...

So am I.

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I submit that any kind of government action in response to freely exercised speech is, in fact, a violation of the first amendment rights of the citizenry.

Wow! Did that get taken to court, or was the school lucky enough to have expelled someone without the legal resources to bring the fight? Anymore info on this one would be appreciated.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ECVZZ 0]

Quote

was the school lucky enough to have expelled someone without the legal resources to bring the fight

I would think the ACLU would be all over that for free. It would be an opportunity to draw a finer line (via a high court ruling) in the debate on 1st amendment interpretation.

Greg

[quatorze 1]

Quote

Examples of speech that can get me put in jail?
These are all hypothetical, and do not reflect my views.
I hate you because you are a faggot!--hate speech
I hate you n---er!--discrimination
If you don't have sex with me, I will fire you!--while that may not put me in jail, I can lose my job over this.
I have a bomb, and am going to blow something up.---No, I don't and would never do such a cowardly thing. But, even saying so would be a breach of national security these days.
These do not reflect my views. I am friends with several openly gay people. I have a best friend who is black, so I don't even think of the n-word when talking to people of different colors.
Sexual Harrasment? Brings law suits. and it should. this behavior should not be tolerated.
A bomb? Smart terrorists like Osama Bin Laden do not announce their plans. Someone who announces a plan like this does not really want to follow through, but are simply crying for attention.
Those are some examples of things to go to jail for saying.
Hope that clarifies things.
Peace,
Thomas

While not entirely all the things you said will warrant you doing time, Thomas Jefferson said it best, "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

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How many countries claim "Freedom of speech", but still send their own citizens to jail if the wrong thing is said

Now the part that I do not want to do. Thomas is right. Just a few weeks ago, the President, came to the hangar where I work on the campaign trail. Granted there where numerous people here in support of the candidate for which he was campaigning, but there were others who stood out on public property (ie the right of way on either side of a state road) in front of our hangar, with signs condemming the US's propsed war with Iraq, carrying signs that said to keep us out of Irag and what not. The local police asked them to refrain from demonstrating and to move to the "free speech area" WTF??? A Free Speech Area, what about the right to public assembly or the freedom of speech. It would not have been such a sour note, except that the police did not require the demonstrators holding signs in support of the President, only those that had differing oppinions to move. To cut to the chase, only one of the anti-war with Iraq protestors, stayed, and subsequently went to jail for trespassing. TRESPASSING??? on a public right of way (ie the goddamned side walk?) Yes this man lost his freedom of speech, and went to jail for saying the wrong thing. I can attest to it, I watched it happen, I also respect the man who went to jail for the Bill of Rights. My country, may she always be in the right, but my country, right or wrong!

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[TomAiello 26]

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The local police asked them to refrain from demonstrating and to move to the "free speech area" WTF??? A Free Speech Area, what about the right to public assembly or the freedom of speech. It would not have been such a sour note, except that the police did not require the demonstrators holding signs in support of the President, only those that had differing oppinions to move.

I encountered this situation when I was in college. I called the ACLU, and they informed me that any event (i.e. the President's appearance, in your case) has a right to control the content of it's entire event. In other words, "your right to swing your sign ends where my political rally begins."

I'm not saying I agree--just that the ACLU would support the President in this case.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[quatorze 1]

I found the article

Freedom of Speech, in Certain Quarters

Bush Protester Goes to Jail


By ERIC KENNETH WARD

Brett Bursey watched Air Force One land at the Columbia Metropolitan Airport around noon on Oct. 25 as he sat in a paddy wagon with his hands cuffed behind his back en route to the Lexington County jail.

Within minutes, as Bursey was being booked on a trespassing charge, President Bush took to a podium in a hangar at the airport and delivered a speech to some 4,400 cheering South Carolinians.

Bush offered praise and asked for support for Palmetto State Republican candidates in the Nov. 5 elections. He extolled the freedoms of America. And he described Iraqi President Saddam Hussein as a threat to peace who hates the United States.

To Bursey, director of the S.C. Progressive Network, the president’s rhetoric about freedom echoed with Orwellian irony.

Bursey had gone to the airport with about 15 other people to protest what they see as the president’s misguided attempt to launch the nation into a war against Iraq. Employing the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and assembly, the demonstrators carried signs with slogans like “No War for Oil” and “No Weapons of Mass Distraction.”

The protesters took up various positions. Bursey, joined by a few others, chose a spot along a road that the presidential convoy would travel on to the airport. The road was lined with a far greater number of Bush supporters who had signs of their own.

That’s when things went awry.

Airport police confronted Bursey and his colleagues standing beside the road and told them they had to move to a “designated free speech zone,” according to the protesters and a spokeswoman for the airport.

Bursey’s companions obliged, but Bursey didn’t. As Bursey tells it, he asked the cops if the reason they wanted him to move was the content of his anti-war sign. The police said yes and again asked him to relocate, to which Bursey replied, “I am in the free speech zone. I’m in America.”

Not amused, airport officers arrested Bursey and charged him with trespassing after notice. “He was located in an area that was considered a buffer or a security zone,” airport spokeswoman Lynne Douglas says. Asked whether Bursey was targeted because of his sign, Douglas says, “I’m not aware of that conversation.”

One thing is certain: Airport police are more accustomed to listening to planes take off and land than dealing with protesters and making arrests. Of the thousands of people who’ve passed through the airport this year, airport police have arrested 12 including Bursey, Douglas says, adding that most of the others were for DUI or failing to return rental cars.

The day after his arrest, Bursey was released on a personal recognizance bond. He says he will ask for a jury trial and has “no doubt” that he will be acquitted because he was on public property. “The whole notion of having free speech zones is contrary to the tradition of America,” Bursey says. “I mean it’s not a question of security. It’s a matter of shutting up the opposition.”

In the late 1960s, Bursey was arrested under similar circumstances. He fought the charges all the way to the S.C. Supreme Court, which threw out his case.

Bursey says that by establishing designated protest areas far removed from the locations of presidential visits, Bush employs the Secret Service as “an advance political team” to disperse critics and weaken their message. “I mean free speech is not a crime,” he says. “The sign is not a crime.”

Neil Dolan, special agent in charge of the state office of the Secret Service, did not return several calls.

Douglas says the demonstration site for Bush’s visit was in front of the airport. “It would have been seen,” she says.

Michael Berg, a Columbia resident who took part in the protest, says he was appalled at such police-state tactics. “The message was clearly, ‘You are not allowed to be here unless you are wholeheartedly supporting the president,’” Berg says. “Every place, as soon as we arrived, we were threatened with immediate arrest.”

Using a legal standard that the government is prohibited from violating someone’s rights under the color of law, Bursey says he will bring a civil lawsuit in federal court against Bush, the Secret Service and the airport police in an attempt to establish a precedent that squelching dissent is unconstitutional

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[TomAiello 26]

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was the school lucky enough to have expelled someone without the legal resources to bring the fight

I would think the ACLU would be all over that for free. It would be an opportunity to draw a finer line (via a high court ruling) in the debate on 1st amendment interpretation.

The facts of the case actually involved a student hanging a Confederate flag in the window of her dormitory room.

In this case, the University was supported by the California chapter of the ACLU. In order to gain legal support, the student was forced to seek help from the Arizona chapter of the ACLU.

Whoever thought the ACLU always supported free speech never asked them to support (gasp!) controversial speech.

When this case went down (on the UC Davis campus, while I was a student there), I tore up my ACLU membership. I guess they finally found their Skokie for me. The point when the political correctness of the local ACLU members overrode their commitment to free expression was the point at which I parted company with them.

In the end, the student was re-instated. By that time (two years of court battles later), she was nearly done with her degree at the University of Arizona. She never returned to the University of California. As I recall, the case never even made it to the appellate level, and was largely decided on procedural tactics (and the court-weariness of the University of California Office of the President).

Don't even get me started on Smith v. Regents...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Have a look at "Free Speech for Me, but Not for Thee" by Nat Hentoff. Interesting reading...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Shark 0]

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For what it's worth, the US actually does get plenty of gratitude for its aid, and deservedly so.

How's that? Are they going to send a Christmas card this year?