PLFXpert 0 #1 December 13, 2002 Normally I don't post hot topics in the news, b/c of the drama that entails, but this one is fairly light.... By 2004, the small pox vaccine will be available to all Americans. Pros: A lot of worried Americans, may not be so worried in case of a bioterrorist attack. Terrorists might think twice about using it as a weapon. Cons: The vaccine is quite dangerous, with a signifant death rate/side effects rate. Also, those who are sensitive to the vaccine, w/out even getting it, could die just by being close to someone who received it. It's not necessary at this point in time. Small pox has been erradicated for years. This might potentially bring the disease back. My personal beliefs....I don't put anything into my body, unless absolutely needed. I took an extensive biotechnology class over the summer, taught by a government biotec-scientist, who repeated on a daily basis, the need for Americans to NOT take antibiotics unless prescribed to by a doctor and then to make sure they follow the directions and really take them until the time is up (a lot of people quit when they feel better)....he also said, people taking vaccines when not necessary change their immune systems, thereby allowing diseases to mutate. That is a really brief and somewhat vague explanation on my part, but for the lack of time and space on here, you can do your own research But basically, my point is...if quite a few people take this vaccine, and then the virus IS introduced by terrorists, the chances are more likely that the virus will mutate, and they won't currently have a treatment for the new, mutated virus. I won't be taking the vaccine when it becomes available. Only in the event of a bioterrorist attack, would I do so.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #2 December 13, 2002 *As a side note* If you have never read a book or taken a class on biotechnology, I HIGHLY recommend it. A lot of biotech stuff, I don't agree with, such as cloning, gene therapy, etc. However, b/c it's going to be so heavily in our society from now on I think it's important to learn about. Not only that, but whenever I have an opinion about something, I like to make sure I know all sides and points of view of the issue to make my best judgement and always be able to refute and accurately argue my point of view, if necessary (GENERALLY, I STEAR CLEAR OF SUCH ARGUMENTS, I prefer to let each do their own thing.) I realize that just as I feel strongly about one way, someone else may feel strongly about another way, and I would be a hypocrite for arguing with them, when they're only following their own beliefs, just like I do. But in the class I took, we learned about everything from the history of bioterrorism (experimenting in Japan on POW, etc.) and how it is done, gene therapy (injecting babies while still in the womb, to prevent possible future diseases), cloning, and some REALLY COOL things, like how all cars in Brazil run off waste and how economically and environmentally productive it is, and yet why we don't implement such things, here. Other cool things like impacts of oil spills and inventing bacteria that eat the oil to clean it up, etc....lot's of cool stuff, and lot's of uncool stuff but ALL of it interesting Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #3 December 13, 2002 Quote The vaccine is quite dangerous, with a death rate of 2 in every hundred people vaccinated. That's way too high... The rate I've seen quoted was 1 or 2 / 1 million. QuoteAmericans to NOT take vaccines unless prescribed to by a doctor and then to make sure they follow the directions and really take them until the time is up (a lot of people quit when they feel better)....people taking vaccines when not necessary, or not doing so for the required time, change their immune systems, thereby allowing diseases to mutate. Vaccines are administered only once, with maybe a booster shot a few years after. That sounds more like he was talking about antibiotics. Quote But basically, my point is...if quite a few people take this vaccine, and then the virus IS introduced by terrorists, the chances are more likely that the virus will mutate, and they won't currently have a treatment for the new, mutated virus. Vaccinations really wont have much of an effect on strains of viruses(virii?). That would require that the virus was actually out there, and not contained in a lab somewhere. I really think you've mixed up the antibiotics/bacteria thing with vaccinations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #4 December 13, 2002 You are right, I was referring to antibiotics in the first part... On the second part, however, you might check your facts to Quote Vaccinations really wont have much of an effect on strains of viruses(virii?). That would require that the virus was actually out there, and not contained in a lab somewhere. I really think you've mixed up the antibiotics/bacteria thing with vaccinations. I am double-checking the 2/100 facts...I am almost positive that's what was on CNN this morning and on Talk Back Live yesterday. I'll get back to you....I should have, however, double-checked this before I posted...my mistake, whether it's right or not.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #5 December 13, 2002 Some facts: "Based on studies from the 1960s, about 15 out of every 1 million people vaccinated for the first time will face life-threatening complications, and one or two will die. Reactions are less common for those being revaccinated." "In making the decision, Bush had to weigh the risks of the often-deadly disease against the dangers of the vaccine, which produces more serious side effects than any other vaccine dispensed in this country." "Many, including Dr. D.A. Henderson, a federal bioterrorism adviser who led the global campaign to wipe out the disease, believed this was enough. If smallpox appeared again, he and others reasoned, people could be vaccinated in an emergency campaign. The vaccine is effective if delivered a few days after being exposed to the disease. " "Once vaccinations begin, it will be important that certain people not get the vaccine because they face particular risk of side effects. That includes cancer patients, organ transplant recipients, people with HIV, pregnant women and people with a history of eczema. People who live with others who have these conditions also should not be vaccinated, because the live virus used in the vaccine can sometimes escape the inoculation site and infect others." You can do the rest of the research on your own...these quotes were taken from the Washington Post. While I think the first part of Bush's plan, to vaccinate troops and healthcare workers MIGHT be necessary; for the public, I'm not so sure. Like I said, there's pro's and con's to everything....it's up to each individual to weigh those themselves...I didn't urge anyone to believe as I did. I simply stated some pros/cons and then what I think and why. I posted b/c I'm curious what others think and why...like I said, I like hearing all points of view...and I'm not going to aruge anyone out of theirs if it differs from mine Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #6 December 13, 2002 plpllp about vaccine for military! most military are deployed. this is about HOMELAND security! why would I be more succeptable then you. edit: oops the Icon was supposed to be this one...I was wondering why I got so many PM's! still, the military station HERE is no more or less at risk then YOU are. why do you think it should be mandatory for military?(FYI- those that are fighting are sure to be forced to take the vaccine; I am not in a direct line of fire!) My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #7 December 13, 2002 Quote Normally I don't post hot topics Excuse me? I think you need to do a search of your threads. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #8 December 13, 2002 Huh? What are you referring to JT? Re-read Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #9 December 13, 2002 QuoteQuote Normally I don't post hot topics Excuse me? I think you need to do a search of your threads. [Wink] He he he...OK, I should have said SERIOUS hot topics...we all know the rest of my threads are *very hot n sexy*"Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #10 December 13, 2002 Quoteplpllp JT, What is this word? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #11 December 13, 2002 Important to add to Carrie's post: In Bush's proposal, the vaccine for civilians will not be mandatory. It is the individual's choice. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygeek 0 #12 December 13, 2002 Quote A lot of biotech stuff, I don't agree with, such as cloning, gene therapy, etc. Why? Are you afraid of something? Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #13 December 13, 2002 Quote Quote plpllp JT, What is this word? thats the sound this icon makes My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #14 December 13, 2002 Quote Huh? What are you referring to JT? Re-read While I think the first part of Bush's plan, to vaccinate troops and healthcare workers MIGHT be necessary; for the public, I'm not so sure Most military ppl who are fuighting over seas right now are probably vacciniated already. but te rest of us (who may have just gotten back to the states) are HERE. why would I be more succeptable to smal pox then a civilian. remember, on 9/11 the rules changed. civilians ARE the target now!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #15 December 13, 2002 We are saying the same thing...that's also who i was referrig to;-) Muenkel....my post may have been too brief, but as I noted, people can do their own research.....but exactly, it is not mandatory, that's why I said I would be choosing NOT to Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #16 December 13, 2002 Quote Why? Are you afraid of something? Quite the opposite, I have no fearsIf you'd like to know my views, you may PM me anytime...I choose not to add to or create drama by posting my own personal views on such matters.I can see both sides to almost any matter and their are certainly pros to the above things, however, I still don't agree, nothing to do w/ religion. To each their own.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #17 December 13, 2002 I see allot of military personel refusing the vaccine.. Just like the Anthrax vaccine... The shit is going to hit the fan over this. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #18 December 13, 2002 This number (1-2 per million dying, 15/million facing complications) sounds a lot more realistic than 1-2 per hundred. Since I remember the 60's, and have been vaccinated in the past, I can assure you that it's a whole lot better than getting smallpox. Some people trust herd immunity to protect them, and tahey don't get vaccinations simply out of mistrust (rather than the many good reasons that exist, like allergy or suppressed immune system). Unfortunately, the more people like this there are, the less likely herd immunity is to protect them. And what she said about antibiotics is so true it's not even funny. Don't take them if you can avoid it, and when you do, make sure you kill ALL of the beasties; don't save some antibiotics for later. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #19 December 13, 2002 QuoteI see allot of military personel refusing the vaccine.. Just like the Anthrax vaccine... The shit is going to hit the fan over this. Rhino No, Rob. The shit should not hit the fan. There is NO similarity to this and the anthrax vaccine. You're too young, but ask any member of my generation. We all have smallpox vaccination scars. How do you think smallpox was wiped out in the wild? A fatal rate of 1 in a million is statistically non-existent. True it would suck to be that one, but in reality, flu vaccinations are riskier than smallpox. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #20 December 13, 2002 yup my father has one of the smooth square patches on his shoulder!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #21 December 13, 2002 So does my father,,, But the fact remains that military personell will refuse it.. I believe the shit will hit the fan... And the vaccine is only good for a few years.. Then all the people that had the vaccine will have to take it again.. I'd feel more comfortable if more DETAILED information was available. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #22 December 13, 2002 Rob, When you say you believe the shit is going to hit the fan. What exactly are you expecting to happen? _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #23 December 13, 2002 As in Military personel... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #24 December 13, 2002 well usually its in a monkey cage. they throw their poo..AT THE FAN...and it hits! My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
