Gawain 0 #51 December 17, 2002 Quote That's it -- we just need to make a few skydivers kings for a budget cycle! LMAO!! Think of what the markets would do...!! All funds to buy new Otters, Skyvans and Caravans... Subsidies for poor jumpers only. Universities for learning to pack. The FAA would be eradicated. The world would plunge in to depression! *L* So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #52 December 17, 2002 Skybytch: Quoteor is any fun that costs money out of the question? Gawain: QuoteI know you aren't advocating that the social system ensure that people be able to have "fun"... I think she's protesting the thought that any fun is precluded for people who are on some sort of assistance. And she's right about that. There's a difference between ensuring that you be able to have fun, and precluding any fun as a condition of assistance. Obviously, the definition of "fun" will change, as you pointed out. Some poor people make poor choices. Some rich people make poor choices. It's easy to do when it comes to fun (who here has gone into debt for skydiving?). It takes a whole lot more skill not to make poor choices when you don't have any cushion to help you with the consequences. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #53 December 17, 2002 QuoteMy only question after reading these responses is - What is the income level below which people are not allowed to have fun? Is it okay for a poor person to have fun if the total cost is less than a night at the movies, or is any fun that costs money out of the question? The way I see, you can have fun any time you like. One doesn't need to go to the movies to have fun, one doesn't need an expensive night on the town to have fun. What's the matter with a day in the park? Jogging? (Hey, some people enjoy it) Reading a good book? There are quite a few things to do that are fun and don't cost money. As long as you're living off of my paycheck I'm going to pissed off if you're spending it in the bar, at the movies, or at the dropzone. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #54 December 17, 2002 Quote Fukkit, even if he is getting food stamps, I still don't see why anyone should begrudge him a good time once in awhile. You want me to support you and take you to the movies? This is exactly what's wrong with our social programs these days. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #55 December 17, 2002 QuoteAs long as you're living off of my paycheck I'm going to pissed off if you're spending it in the bar, at the movies, or at the dropzone. Reread Bob's story. Nowhere in there is it mentioned that he's asking for, receiving or expecting any assistance from anybody. He's not a skydiver, he doesn't have cable TV, a telephone, a computer or internet access. He's merely plugging along paying his bills as best he can on what he makes, while living in substandard housing (around here anyway, $300 a month won't rent much more than a ratty mobile home in a ratty trailer park, and I haven't seen any roommate situations advertised for less than $350/month in a loooong time). Again, why shouldn't he spend a few of the dollars he earned on something that makes him smile and laugh? Of course there are lots of ways to have fun that cost little or nothing. When I was living on $12k/year we rode our bikes a lot, played catch and hacky sack and read a lot of books (from the library or purchased at the thrift store or used book store). But once in awhile we did spend a bit more than I could afford on something "special" - whether that was a movie (lower priced matinee of course) or dinner out (at the least expensive restaurant in town of course), it was a nice break from the reality of not being able to afford to do much more than pay the basic bills. Ah well. I guess, for most of you anyway, if you've never been there you'll never understand. I'm glad that I can at least have some sympathy for people who, for whatever reason, are less fortunate than I am. Sure hope no one in some of your families or circle of friends ever finds themselves in the same type situation... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #56 December 18, 2002 Take it from someone who until this year was so poor he couldn't even pay attention - I find it sad that there is poverty in this world. Poverty is a bad thing and people should be allowed to escape poverty. I now escaped poverty and I net about $2,800 per month from work. Okay, so I have $1,200 a month in student loans to repay. I need a car to get me from place to place for work - $330 per month. Car insurance? I need to drive 60 miles round trip every day to get to the office (unless I need to appear in Indio at 8:30 a.m., or Santa Ana, or Palmdale, or San Berdu, or Riverside) so there's a pretty penny in insurance and gas ($350/month). Food? Fast food is cheap! Credit cards? Yes, I'm paying those off, as well. Rent money? Naw, living with mom till I can save up for a down payment on a condo. Skydiving? Yeah, my pleasure and joy at the couple of jumps per month that I can actually afford. Some people make poor decisions. I sure did! I chose to get good grades in undergrad (hey, I didn't have to pay for that. Uncle Sam paid for me, and all I had to do was sign my ass over to him for 8 years! The two jobs during college helped, too) and make my opportunities. So now I have a reasonably well-paying job. The second time in my life I made more than $12,000. (tough to work much when in school). I fought (no, I didn't just happen to end up there) out of poverty, and now I get $1,500 per month held out of my paycheck. I understand I'll owe more money at tax time, too! It's all right. It's only a third of my income. It's only $18.000 that I won't be able to keep this year. t's worth it if "Bob" can go see a movie with it. (Movies? Yeah, I got to see one once this year). Bob makes $12,000 per year. Funny, that's about $6,000 less than the money I won't be able to keep this year. If poverty is so bad, why are people punished for escaping it? I have sympathy for those people who are less fortunate than I am, financially. I only spent 28 years being there with them. I also feel sympathy for those people who will never know what it is like to fly through the air from 13,000 feet. I was there for 28 years, too. I knew what it meant to not have much. Now that I know what it is to be stripped of hard-earned money, a lot of it, I have not sympathy, but a kinship with those who know what it is like to work so hard, and have so much taken away. Much liek the kinship I feel with those who have served, and those who knwo what it is to fly. Believe me - it is more difficult having it taken away than never having it in the first place. Just my two cents worth. Make that $18,000 worth... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
