creation or evolution, which do you believe

[skygod7777 0]

what's up

ok, i have this paper for my final tommorrow, i have desided to do it now instead of in class.

so, what do you believe, and why. i can't really deside. i think i kinda believe in both.

like something had to make the universe, but what??? (creation)

something had to start life one earth (creation)

now, that life is started, now evolution starts to happen.

and also, if i'm correct, the bible says god created earth in 7 days, so my question is, what is a gods day?? who knows, a gods day could be a billion years to us, or it could be 2 min.s to us.

and evolution. if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around if we "evolved".

and some hard core creationists say that the earth is like 4000 years old, that god put all the fossils there, and all kinds of other stuff, i disagree with this.

and if you have any web sites that have some more info on this, please let me know. or if you have one that has some pre-made reports, that would be really cool.

but what's you opinion


later

[misskriss 0]

Just Glad to be here, boss..

seriously.. not sure what I believe anymore... I know....i'm no help..

[rawgum 0]

i've wonderd the same stuff. only GOD knows!

[AggieDave 6]

"Contemplating origins of life here boss"
"Go ahead and contemplate..."

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[phatcat 0]

If it's a professor telling you to do this, I'd suggest telling him to find a new line of work.

[skygod7777 0]

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If it's a professor telling you to do this, I'd suggest telling him to find a new line of work.

i guess that you have never scene my age posted in one of the other forums.

i'm only 18, and in high school. and if you have any questions about my jump numbers, my dad used to own a dz, do a search, and you may find when i starte jumping,

later

[skyboyblue 0]

I always love this debate. I went to catholic school for a while and such. and I've chose a science field to live in. so I've been on both sides at one point. after much education though, I tend to believe the evolution rather than creation. i wish I had my notes still from the evolution class. It doesn't mean I don't believe in god, I just means I use it as guidance or spiritual stuff rather than an explanation for how we came to be.

[DZBone 0]

OK, here's a topic for you. Most people are going to take one or the other standard positions, Creationists deny Evolution, Evolutionists may deny a Creator, or have him kick-starting and/or managing the process.

Go totally outside. Rather than arguing that God created Evolution, turn it around and argue that Evolution, when it goes far enough, must eventually create God!

And, perhaps it already has! But not in the "God exists in the mind of man, evolution created man" sense, but in a literal, God as (formerly?) coporeal being evolved from lesser forms on Earth.

How's that for the "arrogance of man"?

_________________________________________________
If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound?

[quade 4]

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i think i kinda believe in both.

Can't really. They're mutually exclusive.

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like something had to make the universe, but what??? (creation)

You should really look into quantum physics.

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something had to start life one earth (creation)

Or maybe just simple chemistry over a very long period of time.

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and also, if i'm correct, the bible says god created earth in 7 days, so my question is, what is a gods day?? who knows, a gods day could be a billion years to us, or it could be 2 min.s to us.

If you don't believe the Bible in it's literal sense, then the entire thing falls apart. It's either -exactly- as stated, or it just doesn't make sense. So, the days as referenced in the Bible would be one sunset to the next sunset. Period -- end of discussion. Unless of course, you just don't have faith in the word as it is written.

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and evolution. if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes around if we "evolved".

You "evolved" from your Mom & Dad sperate from your cousins. Your cousins are around in the same way that apes are still around. Just a much longer family tree.

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and if you have any web sites that have some more info on this, please let me know. or if you have one that has some pre-made reports, that would be really cool.

Do your own research kid. Make up your own mind and learn something from it. Don't cheat yourself by parroting other people's opinions.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pds 0]

put down the gun and step away from the mutt.....

namaste, motherfucker.

[billvon 3,111]

>like something had to make the universe, but what??? (creation)

There are a bunch of theories that don't include an omnipotent being, but they are just educated guesswork.

>something had to start life one earth (creation)

There have been enough experiments showing that lightning in a reducing atmosphere can create amino acids and lipid membranes that you can postulate a completely natural start to life on earth.

>and also, if i'm correct, the bible says god created earth in 7 days,
>so my question is, what is a gods day?? who knows, a gods day
> could be a billion years to us, or it could be 2 min.s to us.

Well, since people wrote the bible, one would think they would use the human definition of day. But who knows.

>and evolution. if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes
> around if we "evolved".

Evolution does not generally destroy the old genotype, unless the new one is better adapted to the same niche that the original one is, and the niche is small. When black moths evolved in London to survive better in the coal-dust-covered city, white moths did not disappear in the country. When modern fishes evolved from early bony fishes, the bony fishes (like the coelacanth) did not disappear. We are just one of the results of evolution and divergence from early primates, some of whom are still around.

>and some hard core creationists say that the earth is like 4000
> years old, that god put all the fossils there, and all kinds of other
> stuff, i disagree with this.

Me too. I have a lot of trouble believing in a trickster god who would fabricate a false past to mess with us.

>and if you have any web sites that have some more info on this,
> please let me know. or if you have one that has some pre-made
> reports, that would be really cool.

Check out the Scientific American website. (www.sciam.com) Do a search on creationism and you will get an earful.

>but what's you opinion

God, to me, is Planck's constant. He is the Heisenburg uncertainty principle. He's not some bearded guy who smites those he dislikes, but the basic forces that guide all matter and energy in the universe. If Planck's constant were not what it is, nuclei could never have formed in the first few minutes of the universe's formation. If the Heisenburg uncertainty principle did not hold, chaos theory would lose one of its most basic underpinnings, and the universe would not be so diverse.

[masher 1]

evolution.

To see if something is 'real', you need to have a falsefiable hypothesis.

Your hypothese could be that man descended from the onions. Nowadays, DNA evidence can demonstrate that this is impossible. Hence, your hypothesis is false.

Creation. Man was created by a God. ummm, how can you falsefy that? You have to take it at face value. You can't investigate the reasoning behind it.


Evolution can be framed as a falsefiable hypothese; creation can't.


.

edit:
mmmm Heisenburg. mmm quantum. mmm undergrad days...

Delta(x)*Delta(p) >= hbar/2

I love quantum.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[indyz 1]

Experiments have shown that you can form amino acids by zapping primordial Earth's atmosphere with electricty. That could lead simple self-replicating molecules, then all they way to cells. I'm also open to the possibility that a "seed" microorganism somehow got to earth from the depths of space. I'm even open to the possibility that some being other than us placed extremely simple organisms on Earth (Edit: Notice that I didn't say "god" or "higher being." If life was placed on earth, it was done by somebody who obeys the same physical laws that we do). It's really, really, unlikely, but I'm open to the possibility.

Regardless of how the first simple organism (or few organisms) got here, I am a firm believer in the theory that undirected evolution got us from then to now.

[mikkif 0]

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God, to me, is Planck's constant. He is the Heisenburg uncertainty principle.

Oh, major wet spot on my chair now...

Freedom -- Expression -- Spirit

[misskriss 0]

a little too late for tomorrow....but try reading..
"The Elegant Universe.." by Brian Greene.. I struggle to understand it, but my 13 yr old is devouring it. hmmmmm.what does that say about me..

[ShivaDas 0]

In a so called state of existance with literally infinite posibilities, Why only two open for discussion?
The question is a trap, it is built on empty premise which is passed along to placate the masses.

Just havin fun!
Paul

[billvon 3,111]

>Oh, major wet spot on my chair now...

You know, I don't think I've ever quite gotten that response before when discussing religion _or_ physics . . .

[masher 1]

we're on a roll.

Keep it going!

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Squeak 17]

Paul Davies describes creationist gods as "the god of the gaps".
Anything that our current understanding of physics (and it's a limited understanding at best) has not yet been able to adequately explain must therefore be atributed to GOD.
The quote I have heard bandied around the most is if science can't expain it it 'must' have been god.
Rubbish

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[charliezulu 0]

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i think i kinda believe in both.

Can't really. They're mutually exclusive.

How come most of the "Big Bang" theorists still believe in the Judeo-Christian god then? Last I heard, Steven Hawking and the late Carl Sagan both held to the belief that a god could have started the whole thing.

CZ

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[indyz 1]

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How come most of the "Big Bang" theorists still believe in the Judeo-Christian god then? Last I heard, Steven Hawking and the late Carl Sagan both held to the belief that a god could have started the whole thing.

Any good scientist will have to admit that it is possible that a god started the universe. You can't discount any possibility, no matter how unlikely it is.

It is possible to make room for God in any theory involving evolution or the creation of the universe by interpreting the Bible, epsecially Genesis, to suit your needs. I know plenty of people who believe life as we know it was the result of God's work, whether it is because He set off the Big Bang, or He created the first organisms, or He is directing evolution, or He created the Universe 4000 years ago in a literal 7 days.

[rhino 0]

Creation.....

I don't believe we evolved from monkeys or dolphins..

This is where faith comes into play. If you ask me for my "logical reasoning", I would tell you to read the bible...

Rhino

[jimmytavino 16]

studied this a bit in college.... The fossil record seems to give evidence that there has been a long slooooow process , consisting of gradual individual changes,,(environmentally determined) leading to the present species, which inhabit the planet Earth today...Natural Selection,,,,doesn't mean the biggest and roughest, will Dominate,,, it means that those individuals who possess the BEST traits to match well with their specific environmental requirements,,,,will live long enough, to "mate and reproduce" thereby transferring those TRAITS,, to the next generation..
those without these Physical components, will not
survive long enough to mate..(generally speaking) ..and so their "less valuable" traits, fade away..from the population at large .( i. e. Those "inferior" traits, get "selected OUT " naturally, and the better traits get selected "in" ) ( of course we must be open minded that what may be a 'good' trait for one part of the planet may not be good for another part) thus we have variety within species.
The fossil record, mostly from the equatorial areas of the world,, show that Humans and Apes SHARED an ancestoral history UNTIL about 10 million years ago... The species branched then,, or about then,,, and from this varied
"tree" sprang the current day Human Species, and the current day Ape Species,,,,,The apes of today,,, are FAR different from the Pre-ape ,, Pre-human
animals which existed all those million years ago...
As for creation,,,,Well certainly, there was some sort of HUGE energy at work....Be IT Scientific or Cosmic or Theological,,,, but the expanse of the Universe is so Vast,,,,that who are we to state what may have occured so far back in time?????Something kick started the whole thing ( some call it Big Bang)
some call it God,,, but It is accurate to say that once this event occured,, The universe has operated on its own scientific plane, to establish some type of Physical Equilibrium. which has been effective,, for billions of years.... They say the earth is 4 billion years old,,, and Man has been around for only a speck of time,, by comparison....Isn't it possible that we DON"T know all the answers??....But we must
still ask the questions. and I'm afraid skygod7777, it'll be up to you to answer them...

[PLFXpert 0]

Yikes, while I respect your opinion, I disagree somewhat.

I believe in possibilities and very few definites. I believe it is possilbe for creation and evolution to be happening at the same time. Therefore, not being "mutually exclusive".

Like skygod said, I somewhat believe in both, as well. I consider myself Christian as far as there being a God and Jesus. But, I also believe that God lets some things just happen; science.

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If you don't believe the Bible in it's literal sense, then the entire thing falls apart. It's either -exactly- as stated, or it just doesn't make sense. So, the days as referenced in the Bible would be one sunset to the next sunset. Period -- end of discussion. Unless of course, you just don't have faith in the word as it is written. [Wink]

This is a scary statement...ALL WORDS are always open to interpretation. People's personal backgrounds, experiences, etc. affect how they read/interpret information, even that which is stated in the Bible. Hence the arguement over whether the Bible really states being gay is a sin or not. Not only that, but the Bible was written centuries ago, when different words had different meanings, etc.

What I disagree with, is a lot of people rely on their priests, ect. to "interpret" the readings of the Bible for them. I ask the question, how is this priest so different than me that he may interpret it better than I?

Your comment about taking it in the "literal" sense is nearly impossible b/c so many different people interpret things different and will take it "literally" in different ways.

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Don't cheat yourself by parroting other people's opinions.

This is something I used to bring up in Sociology all the time. When we talked about plagarism and how students were often caught w/ plagarized material. Some students, however, swear they didn't plagarize and that it was their own idea.

My thoughts are: With the BILLIONS of books already written, words already said, etc....is there any truly original thought? I mean think about it...any paper you write for school has been written before by someone on the same topic. Any ideas you have, etc. there is something out there, some journal or academic research or something already done. No paper for school is ever written without doing background research and citing material in your work. When you form your "own opinion" based on the information from all angles that you have read, aren't you still forming the same opinion someone somewhere else already had, and therefore, do you consider that taking from their ideas? Or is it only parroting if you take it word for word?

To form any intellegent and informed opinion, you must first have ample and extensive information on the given subject so you can best formulate your own ideas.

It would be nearly impossible to say, "Well, I haven't read the Bible, and I've never researches Darwinism, but just for the f*ck of it, I'm going to say that ....blah, blah, blah." Your opinion would then be w/out merit.

While I see your points and don't completely disagree, I think one needs to leave a few doors open to possibilties

As a side note, if anyone has ever read the book, "Celestine Prophecy," although the book is fiction, it has a unique and wonderful idea that ties in all religions AND evolution into one. The book is fiction b/c it can not be proved, just as the Bible can not be proved, so one might leave its ideas open to a possibility.


But also, to each their own....as I've said before, whether you believe in a God, or evolution, there is a place for everyone in this world. I personally, believe everyone, even those with completely different beliefs, are ultimately bound together

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[freebird 0]

The Big Bang theory, have you read it? I believe in evolution but I also believe we are part of something else in the universe. That something is the mystrey.