Incidents?

[riddler 0]

Is it just me, or is there no Incidents page in this month's Parachutist? It's not exactly a "fun" page, but I do ge ta lot of valuable information from it.

Maybe I've got some pages stuck together or something ...

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[CrazyIvan 0]

Nope...that's an incident itself

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Jimbo 0]

It's not just you, the incident reports are only published every 3 or 4 months.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[CWiggum 0]

wasn't there already a thread about this?

"I'll tear up this ticket, but I'm still gonna have to ask you for a bribe." Chief Clancy Wiggum

[markbaur 0]

Parachutist has to balance ad pages, which pay for a substantial portion of publishing costs, against all the other pages, like articles, photos, rating course and event listings, and stuff like that. My guess is that ad pages are up because of the Parachute Industry Association Symposium later this month, and some ads might need to be run this month or not at all.

For individual incidents, I think you'll find more useful information in the Incidents Forum. The annual fatality report is probably the most useful, although the report has been depressingly similar for the last several years.

Mark

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

The annual fatality report is probably the most useful, although the report has been depressingly similar for the last several years.

Quite true. Unfortunately I don't see that changing until we have structured and responsible canopy training and education at more than 2 or 3 DZs. Education and training will save lives.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[riddler 0]

I agree - I'm disappointed that the focus of training programs like AFF is still on free-fall. Really, all that's needed for free-fall is making sure a student can get stable and deploy - perhaps also to track away. Other flying skills can be safely developed after AFF. I think all the time spent on fall-rate, etc might be better used to focus on canopy skills.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[markbaur 0]

Quote

I'm disappointed that the focus of training programs like AFF is still on free-fall. Really, all that's needed for free-fall is making sure a student can get stable and deploy - perhaps also to track away. Other flying skills can be safely developed after AFF. I think all the time spent on fall-rate, etc might be better used to focus on canopy skills.

This was true of the pre-ISP AFF program, but in the current program once a student has demonstrated acceptable survival skills (recover from unstable, maintain heading, pull at the planned altitude), he can be signed off to jump solo or with a Coach.

The ISP includes canopy skills training on every jump. For example, on Category D (used to be like Levels 4 and 5), the student should be trying rear riser turns and flares.

Now that the 2- or 4-sided "A" license proficiency cards are mandatory, we should see an improvement in canopy skills: rear and front riser work, braked approaches, maximum performance turns, and planned approaches considerate of other traffic are all items on the cards.

BTW, fall-rate adjustment has not been part of the standard AFF program for many years.

Mark

[Push 0]

I agree with all of the above, but there is an additional point here that I don't see. The typical reason for death these days is "too little canopy, too much skydiver". You don't see these things on the student canopies. The person is in danger when they are slightly more experienced and begin downsizing. They don't do it carefully and find themselves in unfamiliar situations where they need to make the right decision without any prior training, and make it now. They don't, and they die.

Maybe we need canopy training that goes past what happens today? I'm talking canopy training for people with over 100 jumps. Not just show what the rear/front risers do, but actually teach to fly smaller canopies.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[billvon 3,116]

> I'm talking canopy training for people with over 100 jumps.

Such training is available via canopy courses; Perris has one. Jumpers must make the effort to avail themselves of these courses though.

[billvon 3,116]

> Really, all that's needed for free-fall is making sure a student can get
> stable and deploy - perhaps also to track away.

That's all AFF is. To graduate you basically have to:

-be able to fall and pull stable, and recover stability
-be able to hold a heading (which means you have to be able to turn)
-be able to track a little
-be able to clear your airspace
-be able to land your student canopy safely

I can't see what you could safely remove from that list.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

> I'm talking canopy training for people with over 100 jumps.

Such training is available via canopy courses; Perris has one. Jumpers must make the effort to avail themselves of these courses though.

I agree with you. Most of the time, there are courses and seminars and no one shows up. However, I think that even good canopy training will stop the hotdogs from hooking themselves into the ground.

Last weekend, I saw someone hook between two 4by4 posts at the edge of the landing area because they didn't want to walk too far. First time in 10 years that I have complained to a DZO about safety problems.

[Michele 1]

Quote

Such training is available via canopy courses; Perris has one. Jumpers must make the effort to avail themselves of these courses though.

Bill, this is the truest statement! But what about peer pressure?

I took the canopy control class starting at jump 40 (and we all have heard the stories by now! LOL). But I got some grief from people, both here in PM's as well as at the DZ, about learning to fly my body first; that I've wasted my $$ 'cause I was not learning to swoop; that I was too new to understand all the concepts; and so forth. No biggie in the end - because I learned a gigantic amount...

Jim Slayton has a system he's developed with a canopy rating. Dunno exactly how it works, or how it would be implemented, but it sounded good, and seems like it would be rather interesting.

But how to address the issues so that folks with 40, 100, 150 jumps take the courses when/if offered? How to establish that you have to land safely every time, and this is not natural with everyone (especially people like me?)?

Just curious about your thoughts on this. I know that I did the right thing taking the class early...but how to encourage others to do the same?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Push 0]

Quote

Bill, this is the truest statement! But what about peer pressure?

I took the canopy control class starting at jump 40 (and we all have heard the stories by now! LOL). But I got some grief from people, both here in PM's as well as at the DZ, about learning to fly my body first; that I've wasted my $$ 'cause I was not learning to swoop; that I was too new to understand all the concepts; and so forth. No biggie in the end - because I learned a gigantic amount...

Don't let anyone give you that grief.

And, perhaps the problem is that people get lulled into a false sense of safety with their hotrods? Even my 160 Tri will kill me if I jump it now (only 19 jumps, still a student). If it can kill me, it can kill someone with 4000 jumps who makes the same mistake.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[homer 0]

To change the subject a bit did anybody notice the 10-way of the cup-n-saucer jump. The jumper in the sit position who is looking at the camera man has his main canopy pin cover undone and flapping in the breeze. This could become a problem for him.

CSA #699 Muff #3804