is anyone worried about money?

[billvon 3,120]

>How is that a "cost"? This is a piece of logic I don't understand.

It is a negative number on the balance sheets. Call it a cost, or a negative income, or a reduction of income, it adds up to the same thing - less money to run government.

>"I'm spending $100 thousand (or whatever their perception of the
> NPV of a medical career is) by not going to medical school and
> becoming a doctor."

But you do hear "I can't rent out my basement apartment any more. That building inspector cost me $500 a month!" No one is taking $500 away from him, but he isn't making $500 a month any more.

[wmw999 2,589]

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Tax cut - $670 billion

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How is that a "cost"?

Well, you need a basis for comparison.

Year A, income was a bazillion dollars, and outgo was .9 bazillion.

For year B, we talk about increasing expenditures (outgo is now 1.2 bazillion). But we're also talking about guaranteeing a decrease in income (income is now .8 bazillion).

To show the difference between the two, you have to quantify them both. "Cost" is a word that's a lot shorter than "known decrease in income." It's probably an accepted accounting practice, too, or something like that.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,120]

>Actually, it does just print more money. But it is not costless, as
>some people believe. I think that is what you meant.

Yes. It does, of course, print money - but it does not use that money as a significant part of its income.

[Muenkel 0]

"How can my checkbook be overdrawn, I still have blank checks?" - Gracie Allen

_________________________________________
Chris

[Gawain 0]

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Engage North Korea diplomatically. Don't tell them "we're not going to negotiate until you disarm." Keep our promise in terms of fuel oil deliveries so they don't have that excuse to fire up their reactors.

Um, wasn't DPRK that completely slapped the world in the face by negating the "Agreed Framework" after being caught pursuing a banned nuclear program? We aren't being heavy handed enough IMO. BTW...that little 5MW reactor in where-ever barely makes enough power to run itself..that's no secret and that's BS. Give DPRK nothing.

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Keep pressure on Iraq via the UN. Support UN intervention rather than unilateral intervention.

This is funny, everyone, the whole world screams to work through the UN. W addresses the UN directly, the Security Council votes UNANIMOUSLY and we continue to engage diplomatically with everyone and still the world is screaming. Why? Because we reserve the right to act unilaterally? Even if we work outside the UN, it won't be unilateral. How many times do it have to be cited about all the work that DoS is doing here? For the last time: JUST BECAUSE THE UN MAY NOT BE INVOLVED DOES NOT MAKE IT UNILATERAL.

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Skip the missile defense program. It doesn't work.

No argument overall, but you have to admit we're on to some amazing technology.

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Skip the Department of Homeland Defense. Instead, keep the original agencies and make it clear what their roles are.

Simplify the tax code. Consider a flat sales tax as a replacement for income tax. Keep income from taxes about the same. Require a balanced budget every year.

Stop oil company subsidies. Use the money to decrease reliance on foreign oil via tax breaks on efficient cars, homes, utilities and renewable energy sources.

Right on.

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Would I want the job? Hell no.

Lotsa perks...your own plane...I'm not convinced I'd say no, despite the headaches!

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[bmcd308 0]

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To show the difference between the two, you have to quantify them both. "Cost" is a word that's a lot shorter than "known decrease in income." It's probably an accepted accounting practice, too, or something like that.

It's a decline in revenue, not a cost. The top line just goes down. A cost happens when you spend money you already had. The implication of using the word "cost" is that the government is somehow "giving back" money to people.

For example, transfer payment programs "cost" money. The government collects the money and then spends it by giving it to whomever society at large decides is worthy of the subsidy. Could be poor people, farmers, big oil companies, or folks who drive fuel efficient cars.

A reduction in revenue does not actually involve an expenditure. It may have the same impact on net income from year to year as a cost, but it does not have the same implication. Please look in your wallet and let me know how much it is costing me not to rob you right now, and you'll see what I mean. It doesn't really "cost" me money not to rob you. But it's still $x that I would have had if I did.

I dunno. Maybe I'm overly caught up in the semantics of this, but I think it's an important distinction.

BMcD...

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www.jumpelvis.com

[billvon 3,120]

>The government should be netting ZERO in the best of times and
>running deficits during times or war, economic imbalance, et al.

Over the long term the government has to net close to zero. If it doesn't, then normal interest formulas mean you end up paying nearly an infinite amount of interest. I agree that running _some_ deficit is good. If you do nothing but maintain a balanced budget, that deficit remains (or increases slightly.) Massively increasing the deficit as a means of having 'free money' does not make much economic sense. The end result will be a weakened US dollar and a gradual devaluing of US goods, resulting in a weaker economy.

[bmcd308 0]

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But you do hear "I can't rent out my basement apartment any more. That building inspector cost me $500 a month!" No one is taking $500 away from him, but he isn't making $500 a month any more.

Yeah, that is kind of my point. The guy complaining about the building inspector is trying to shift some sort of blame to him, by acting as if the $500 was some amount to which he was entitled but that he had to give back.

If I pay less taxes next year, it won't be because I got some gift from the government, it will be because I spent less on taxes. Taxes cost me. Tax cuts don't "cost" society.

BMcD...

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www.jumpelvis.com

[bmcd308 0]

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Over the long term the government has to net close to zero.

I agree. In the '80's, economists talked a lot about "nova theory" as the way to ensure a solid economy. The theory was that because the US had the most powerful military in the world, our currency would always be acceptable to people in other countries. Therefore, the US could have a perpetual budget deficit (as long as interest on the debt did not exceed global production), and just wait until the sun went supernova (so you would never have to pay back the principal). The idea was that you would just issue more an more treasury securities, rolling the ever-growing principal balance into perpetuity. It turned out not to work.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[billvon 3,120]

>Um, wasn't DPRK that completely slapped the world in the face by
> negating the "Agreed Framework" after being caught pursuing a
> banned nuclear program? We aren't being heavy handed enough
> IMO.

Actually we cancelled our aid first, which was what we promised them if they followed the framework.

>This is funny, everyone, the whole world screams to work through the
> UN. W addresses the UN directly, the Security Council votes
> UNANIMOUSLY and we continue to engage diplomatically with
> everyone and still the world is screaming. Why? Because we reserve
> the right to act unilaterally?

Because we are building up US troops in Kuwait and are, to all appearance, going to ignore what the UN says and invade anyway. My prediction: if the UN finds nuclear weapon materials in Iraq, and the UN decides to invade, and we are part of the coalition forces, the world won't scream too loud. If they find nothing and we invade anyway, we will become pariahs.

>JUST BECAUSE THE UN MAY NOT BE INVOLVED DOES NOT MAKE IT
> UNILATERAL.

That's like saying just because you were shot by an assassin rather than executed in an electric chair it doesn't mean it's not justice. We have one justice system in the US, and we use it to decide if someone deserves execution for their crimes. We have a single world government now, tottering though it is - it is the best chance we have for unilateral action.

>No argument overall, but you have to admit we're on to some
>amazing technology.

Yes we are, and it will get used. I just don't think we need to try to deploy a supposedly-impregnable shield that would, at best, give us a false sense of security.

[kallend 2,150]

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Skip the missile defense program. It doesn't work.

No argument overall, but you have to admit we're on to some amazing technology.

[bmcd308 0]

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We have a single world government now,

Please expand on this idea.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Gawain 0]

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We have a single world government now, tottering though it is - it is the best chance we have for unilateral action.

Who? The UN? Bhwhaaahaaahaahaaa....The UN is not a governing body. It is a cooperative diplomatic body..read their charter.

That is why we will not submit solely to UN authority. The UN does not dictate the policies of the USA. That is why we will not place our forces directly under the control of the UN.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[PhreeZone 20]

Whats the current debt the US has in dues to the UN?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riddler 0]

Nope - if deficit spending is good enough for my government, it's good enough for me

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[mouth 0]

Reading this makes me want to put my money in my mattress.

I know I wouldn't want the job but I do think certain responsibilities should be upheld to the people. I know the average citizen really has no idea what goes on in the government other than the basics of how it is run.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[riddler 0]

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No argument overall, but you have to admit we're on to some amazing technology.

I used to work in and around this "amazing technology". It's not so amazing. Don't want to get into details about that last statement, 'cause I don't want to get into trouble .

It comes down to this. The single most motivating factor in our society is money. Therefore commercial technology will almost always surpass military technology. Individuals don't profit from war technology - at least not directly. Your Sony cam-corder is more advanced technology than most of what the defense industry is using.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[LouDiamond 1]

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Your Sony cam-corder is more advanced technology than most of what the defense industry is using.

I beg to differ on that. When you can ID and kill MoFos from an unmanned drone I'll guarentee they have something a little bit more high speed than a sony PC attached

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

Yeah, its a Mini-Dv...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gawain 0]

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I used to work in and around this "amazing technology". It's not so amazing.

The space shuttle uses 386/486 type processors in its computer systems, that doesn't mean it's not amazing. I equate hitting a bullet with a bullet as pretty f**k*n' amazing...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[LouDiamond 1]

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Yeah, its a Mini-Dv...

NO WAY...ya can't fire wire them to a PC-XX

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[kallend 2,150]

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Your Sony cam-corder is more advanced technology than most of what the defense industry is using.

I beg to differ on that. When you can ID and kill MoFos from an unmanned drone I'll guarentee they have something a little bit more high speed than a sony PC attached

The original drones were hopeless, until the defense contractors decided to consult some R/C modelers who had been doing this stuff for decades at a fraction of the cost.

Even now the hobby R/C industry and leading modelers are capable of duplicating pretty much anything these drones do, except for the lethal parts which are illegal to obtain. Autonomous amateur built model airplanes have flown the Atlantic and landed on target, guided by cheap commercial GPS receivers.

Some years ago I wrote (the first) flight simulator for R/C models (made a bundle on it, too). The military bought a bunch of them to train drone pilots.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Even now the hobby R/C industry and leading modelers are capable of duplicating pretty much anything these drones do,

You show me a guy that can build a predator drone in his garage and I'll show you guy with too much money and no life.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

Or some guy who's going to get paid a lot of money from a foriegn intrest to do it over and over again...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 2,150]

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Even now the hobby R/C industry and leading modelers are capable of duplicating pretty much anything these drones do,

You show me a guy that can build a predator drone in his garage and I'll show you guy with too much money and no life.

I expect they would say much the same about a DZ Rat.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.