Tink1717 2 #101 January 11, 2003 Faith is believing what you know isn't so. - Mark Twain 1864. As I see it, there are only two sides to the debate: Those who posit that a deity exists and those who don't. Everything else is just a flavor if those two bases. The evidence favors those who do not believe. BTW, did you notice that all your references, i.e., burning bush, stone tablets, etc.. come form christian mythology? If you truly considered all the arguments why exclude those from other corners? Just thought I'd ask.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #102 January 11, 2003 couldnt resist... the dubbel moral to make the post that makes this tread BURNYes know postwhore and then i even didnt get it Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #103 January 11, 2003 What?Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #104 January 11, 2003 Quote This is not what Christians believe. Actually, pagans (wiccans are the modern version) usually think of God as having physical form resembling humans (ie. two arms ,two legs, etc.) They even have different Gods with different appearances, like Apollo with his chariot, Isis, etc. Christians believe in a God that is omnipotent & omnipresent, &therefore does not have a physical form. When the Bible says man was created in God's image, its referring to the fact that we have an intellect and a free will. That's the part of us that was made in the image of God. uh no its not, you dont know a whole lot about the various pagan religions, they have as many or more variants as the christian. such broad sweeping statements are simply silly.. there are only two options in christianity. Either the bible is the divinely insprired word of god (and therefore EVERY WORD MUST BE TRUE) or its not. As soon as you say "well some things arent meant to be taken literally", you are saying that the "word of god" is instead the "word of man" and man can pick and choice which words to follow, and which to ignore...which leads to christianity being defined by what it actually is, yet another cultures testimony on the nature of divinity...sorry but you cant have it both ways.. Quote Tink1717 The burden of proof lies with believers. Believers make the claim that there is a deity, and that one must do X,Y,Z in order to please that deity. Therefore it is the duty of the believer to support his claim. The atheist, on the other hand, has a much simpler task. We only have to examine the evidence and arguments presented and then confirm or debunk the claims. The claim can also be made the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. However, this is a weak claim at best. Consider the vast amount of negative evidence that exists concerning the existence or non existence of a deity. Everything from unfulfilled prophecy to conflicting claims. Thousands of years of emerging religions, each claiming monopoly on the truth, just like their predecessors, and each failing to deliver on the claims made. Negative evidence is confirmation of absence. nope! you make an assertion, have a belief, a faith in the absence of god and therefore the burden of proof is equally yours. An atheist arguing with a christian has the same burden of proof that a hindu arguing with the same christian would "why is your belief more true than another?" The majority of your statement only applies to christian religion. study some more you will find there are religions that do not require such dogmatic obedience as the christian. actually you cant prove that ANY religion has failed to fulfill its claims. (go ahead prove that christians arent saved, that hindus are not reborn, hell prove that vikings killed in battle didnt go to Valhala..you cant, you can believe they are wrong, but that belief has no more validity than any other faiths. what atheists dont like to accept is that god (nearly anyones) by definition is beyond proof, and all the logic and reason in the world cannot change that.. of course theres always the argument that all faiths are true. good christians go to heaven, bad ones go to hell, Hindu and Buddists get to go around and around until they 'evolve', good muslims go to heaven (and the martyrs get thier virgins) and even the vikings drink mead in valhalla served by valkyries....go ahead ‘prove’ that that is not the case..this should be fun.no btw divinity does not by definition need religion, or worshippers there is always the possiblity that all religions have root in the same divinity (who must then love to play with her creation, but then being god his/her motivations would be so far beyond human understanding or moralities as to be incomprehensable) or that divinity cares nothing for the lesser beings in its creation..only man believes he is the center of the universe and the reason for its existance far better to be an agnostic. willing to admit that there are possibilities beyond the scope and imagining of the human mind..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #105 January 11, 2003 while others are free to do as they wish, "as for me and my house, we will serve the lord" i find it ironic that everytime one of our brother or sister sky divers meets an untimely demise, that EVERYBODY sends thoughts, and prayers, and EVERYBODY believes that person is in heaven, now here, we see how many people do not believe, stop being of a "double mind" (religion when it's convenient, or can serve us a purpose, and when it can't...humph...well?) all i have to say in my last comment on this subject is there's going to be a lot of surprised folks come judgement day. be ye not decieved, GOD IS NOT mocked, hold your tongue, lest it be your undoing.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #106 January 11, 2003 QuoteAs soon as you say "well some things arent meant to be taken literally" I didn't say that. The Bible says man was created in the image of God and I believe it. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #108 January 11, 2003 Condolences are for the living, as are funerals. if those giving them have real compassion they are phrased in the most heartfelt and respectful terms possible, however I have walked out of funerals that were completely disrespectful to the beliefs of the deceased..[I] which unfortunately happens rather often since parents rarely respect the beliefs of their children who reject the dogma of the parents religion..[/I] Just wondering how surprised you might be if the light at the end of the tunnel is infact the lights of an operating room as you are born again, and know for one brief moment that the hindus had a better understanding than the christians, before you begin again with a clean slate? Or instead are cast into an Islamic hell for not following the right path, or simply disappear into nothingness as the atheists believe? and if on judgment day I stand before your lord I will tell him exactly how unfair, unjust, uncompassionate and duplicitous his “believe what you wish (freewill) but go to hell for eternity if you don’t believe this” is…. And of course there is always the option that christian mythology only applies to christians, and islamic applies to muslims only, only the buddhists are elevated to that status, while the hindus go around again until they move beyond…etc ad infinuim . Of course the fanatical of all religions hate this idea as it places all religions on an equal footing and gives no human any reason to consider themselves ‘better’ than any other.. which is after all the real purpose in religion.. Parents should teach their children to look, feel and think for themselves, if any particular religion is [I]the one true path[/I] then an honest seeker will find it for themselves. But I too am mostly done with this discussion (for now ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeetFlyer 0 #110 January 11, 2003 I AM A GOLDEN GOD!!! ehhh > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #111 January 11, 2003 NO DAMMIT EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND I'M RIGHT!! AAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!<> Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #112 January 12, 2003 Quotewhile others are free to do as they wish, "as for me and my house, we will serve the lord" i find it ironic that everytime one of our brother or sister sky divers meets an untimely demise, that EVERYBODY sends thoughts, and prayers, and EVERYBODY believes that person is in heaven, now here, we see how many people do not believe, stop being of a "double mind" (religion when it's convenient, or can serve us a purpose, and when it can't...humph...well?) all i have to say in my last comment on this subject is there's going to be a lot of surprised folks come judgement day. be ye not decieved, GOD IS NOT mocked, hold your tongue, lest it be your undoing. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #113 January 12, 2003 The evidence favors whomever is putting their own creative spin on it. Scholars on both sides have not been able to clearly establish the truth. If ANYONE had unsurmoutable proof, undeniable evidence...we would not even be having this discussion, would we? Like I believe there is a God, on my own personal faith, you must admit that you believe there is not a God on your faith. I am aware my references were Christian in nature. I couldn't think of anything Buddhist or Muslim that quite fit the bill... JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #114 January 12, 2003 QuoteQuoteThere is no god. Problem is, you definitly can't prove that either. Is it impossible to prove Gods existence? I am not asking about any particular god-proof, just the possibility or impossibility of such proof. Amen. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #115 January 12, 2003 Quotewhile others are free to do as they wish, "as for me and my house, we will serve the lord" i find it ironic that everytime one of our brother or sister sky divers meets an untimely demise, that EVERYBODY sends thoughts, and prayers, and EVERYBODY believes that person is in heaven, now here, we see how many people do not believe, stop being of a "double mind" (religion when it's convenient, or can serve us a purpose, and when it can't...humph...well?) all i have to say in my last comment on this subject is there's going to be a lot of surprised folks come judgement day. be ye not decieved, GOD IS NOT mocked, hold your tongue, lest it be your undoing. Everyone??? Speak for yourself. And why does sending thoughts have to be tied to religion. And who says they believe that person is in heaven? definately not everyone. And who's definition of heaven are you talking about? peacehttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #116 January 12, 2003 Quote stop being of a "double mind" (religion when it's convenient, or can serve us a purpose, and when it can't...humph...well?) EVERYBODY sends thoughts, and prayers, and EVERYBODY believes that person is in heaven, lewmonst: you hyprocrit. do not EVER take my words out of context to fit your protocol. what i said was crystal, no reason for missunderstanding. "lake of fire" it's a phrase...look it up. "truly i say unto you, today ye shall be with me in paradice" "no one can come to the father, except he comes through me, jesus christ, the son of man" Author: Jesus Christ--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #117 January 12, 2003 Richard, I tried to figure out what you meant by your reply. I am only able to conclude that you don't know what hypocrite means. If you could explain your position instead of quoting scripture, that would be super. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #118 January 12, 2003 if you cannot distinguish the difference for yourself, i can't help you. besides, the post wasn't addressed to you. c ya.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #119 January 12, 2003 If you didn't want me to comment on it, you should have sent a PM instead of posting in a public forum. I still fail to see the hypocrisy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #120 January 12, 2003 Quotethe post wasn't addressed to you. c ya. assuming you are literate? BYE!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #121 January 12, 2003 Quote you hyprocrit. do not EVER take my words out of context to fit your protocol. what i said was crystal, no reason for missunderstanding. "lake of fire" it's a phrase...look it up. "truly i say unto you, today ye shall be with me in paradice" "no one can come to the father, except he comes through me, jesus christ, the son of man" Author: Jesus Christ One step closer to getting this locked down And I gotta agree with Indyz, if you don't want other's comments you should have made it a PM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #122 January 12, 2003 I'm quite literate, thank you. I just want you to understand that by posting a message on a public forum, you are inviting responses from everybody who views the post. If you only wanted Lew to respond, you should have only sent the message to Lew. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #123 January 12, 2003 QuoteOne step closer to getting this locked down And I gotta agree with Indyz, if you don't want other's comments you should have made it a PM. your a moderator now? the original question was do you belive in God. my answer was yes, and remains so. peace my brother, god's blessings to you.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #124 January 12, 2003 QuoteQuoteOne step closer to getting this locked down And I gotta agree with Indyz, if you don't want other's comments you should have made it a PM. your a moderator now? the original question was do you belive in God. my answer was yes, and remains so. peace my brother, god's blessings to you. Never claimed to be a moderator nor have the desire to be one. In my experiences here, comments like the one I quoted seem to get things rolling in that direction (threads locked specifically). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #125 January 12, 2003 Quote(threads locked specifically) is this your objective?.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
