pds 0 #1 January 15, 2003 I feel like telling a story. I am sure most of you have a pretty good idea what kinda story this is going to be, so now would be the time to tune out if you don't want the whole enchilada. There is no blood and guts or gore or descriptions of fatalities, but it does get ugly. You may even feel like i am ugly. Why i bare these things here? Where else do i have to go with it. I need to get it out. I am naming names and pointing fingers. And I will tell you right now i am not proud of this action or any described herein, but i am tired of just carrying this shit around. This is a sad tale of how when everything that could have possibly went wrong went wrong and then kept wenting wrong. To various east side folks: The antogonism, ignorance, violence and disregard that you and those like you have demonstrated since Ela died, specifically november 9 and december 12 and at various times in these forums, have proven you to be of questionable character. I do not trust you. Your ignorance and violence are things that I am able to handle both intellectually and physically as has been demonstrated. These I can almost grok. What deeply saddens and utterly disgusts me is the continued and quite accomplished display of herd mentality and denial among a certain group of people. [you have already read how we got to this day] November 9th, 2002 I have watched in horror as an occasion meant for remembrance and closure was turned into an act of selfish and ignorant violence because a person on these boards told Tony Langren that Sky was talking shit and blaming him for ela's death. Luis, I wonder who that person was. My question is where i ever did anything BUT damage control and where did i EVER blame anyone for anything? In the presence of Elizabeth's family and friends, my family and friends on the day I wished with every fibre of my being to give her loved ones just a little bit of beauty to remember, just minutes before I was to ride up to release Ela's ashes into that desert sunset sky I was confronted, in the middle of a hanger crowded with mourners, by a man who was already furious and physically red demanding to know why i was 'talking shit' about him on the internet. It was at this time that I knew exactly what was going on. At this point he had not actually READ anything that i had written. If he had, this would not be happening. He had been TOLD something by someone on these boards. Who was that luis? Thats a rhetorical question, luis. I invite anyone to scour these groups and every character typed by me before november 9, 2002 to justify these accusations or behaviour. and just as a little cocktail of truth, i am going to paste in a pm exchange i had with a man that i had never spoken with before. Dave, if this offends you or in any way makes you feel violated, i just want to say from the bottom of my heart.... tough shit. ;-) Forums: Messages: Incidents From: AggieDave Date Sent: Nov 4, 2002, 1:48 PM I know that it hurts to loose someone this close to you skydiving, if you've been in the sport for any amount of time, I'm willing to bet this is not the first time you've experienced this. I've only been in this sport for a bit under 3 years and already 3 friends of mine have died and a handful more have been "lucky" getting away with femurs and shattered vertabre. However, if you have the correct information about the accident, you really should post it, instead of trying to stop the thread, since that information might have something that might teach someone something about their skydiving or how they teach their students, thus saving their life this weekend, next weekend or years down the road. *hug* I know what your going throw, its not easy, know that there is a whole community of skydivers who care. There's no desert that ain't seen rain Nobody here that ain't felt pain Forums: Messages: Incidents To: AggieDave Date Sent:Nov 4, 2002, 1:58 PM Thanks dave. there are some very serious issues that need to be fully understood before ANY account of the incident is posted. This is to protect the heart, reputation and career of people that i trust and respect. I lost the light of my life, but i am not about to recklessly ruin other lives. capice? blue skies buddy. PDS ... pay attention. NOTE: there will be further quotes of private correspondance for which I obtained explicit permission to reprint from the author I attempted to explain that i had done no such thing, and that if he had actually read anything i had written he would know that. I then stated that "this is not the time for this discussion. This day is for Ela's survivors, not us. We will handle this later" and I tried to step around him with my hands at my sides. He refused to accept this, jammed both of his index fingers into my chest and shouted "No motherfucker were gonna deal with it right now!". Just for reference we are going to start counting here: #1. Let me explain to you Luis, I have been trained to help people. I have been trained to control people. I have been trained to injure people. I am familiar with laws regarding assault. In my past it helped keep me out of jail. At the point of #1, as I attempted egress I was assaulted by Tony Langren, Desert Skydiving Center's S&TA and the last person on earth to see ela smile. As is in the police report and corroborated by known and trusted members of YOUR drop zone, my behaviour was unquestionably passive and evasive. I controlled my voice and stated "you do not have any right to keep me here, I am trying to leave" and took one step back and to the right. I do not recall what his exact words were, but they were to the effect of "oh yeah, watch me" and as i attempted to walk around him towards my family he again very forcible jammed his index fingers into my chest, attempting to push me back. #2 I then said "Tony, I AM LEAVING". Same results. #3. At this time I resolved to simple push through, but he decided to grapple with me, actually grabbing me with both hands to keep me there where he wanted me. #4 this time, unlawful detention, assault, battery. It was at this time that I struck Mr. Langren twice in the left temple in the interest of self defense and to continue my effort to remove myself from an unresolvable situation. It is interesting to note that it took 5 men to hold Mr. Langren back as he screamed profanity and epiteths while my 53 year old, 90 pound mother simply stood in front of me holding my hand. Unfortunately, reason did not win that day. Ela's ash dive was cancelled and I was ejected from the drop zone. It was at this point that the disinformation started to flow. I was a maniac and out for blood. Actually all i was looking for was peace. This incident has caused a rift between myself and Elizabeths parents. I cannot bear to face them and try to explain all of this. HOW DARE YOU. And Luis, before you even think about saying anything ELSE about this, you need to shut the fuck up because YOU WERE NOT THERE IN THE HANGER FOR THE CONFRONTATION. I believe you to be person who helped him get worked up, creating an no-win situation for me at a time when it was all i could do just to keep breathing. And you are so used to talking shit that you had no problem believing whatever was being held as the party line regarding this situation. if i am wrong, sorry, forgive me. it doesnt change your behaviour. How convenient is this? the forums are now down, interrupting my research. fuck. I was all ready to dig. I got my mad on now, can you tell? So here is where I know I am in for a long haul. freeflyz Old Hand (Full Profile) Nov 11, 2002, 1:22 PM Post #14 of 27 (3233 views) Copy Shortcut Re: [pds] What I saw in Buckeye [In reply to] Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah and most skydivers do not assult the S&TA's either!!!! Explain that! ------------------------------------------ Someone who wasn't there and ostensibly cares about Ela falsely and publicly accusing me of assault. My reply pds Old Hand (Full Profile) Nov 11, 2002, 1:34 PM Post #16 of 27 (3201 views) Copy Shortcut Re: [freeflyz] What I saw in Buckeye [In reply to] Quote | Reply ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Please address this in another thread and include the police report. thank you. so i took this off to PM to try and resolve it. if you saw it, you know. To: freeflyz Date Sent:Nov 11, 2002, 1:32 PM if you didn't see it with your own eyes, drop it. there is nothing to gain reacting to something you heard. if you witnessed the incident with your own eyes then i do not have to explain anything. it will all come out in the end. PDS ... pay attention. ---------------------------- Re: if you saw it, you know. From: freeflyz Date Sent:Nov 11, 2002, 1:49 PM Why are you so hell bent in fucking things up.Everybody has went out of there way to help you!!!! You do not demand people to do what you want them to do!!!! You jumped without the proper training and you almost kill your stupid ass!!!!You will never be a real skydiver ever, you do not have the HEART!!!!!!!! All that crap you did sat,fucked it up for everyone not just the skydivers,BUT MORE important then us and you, Ela's mother and father,I'm not the type of person to judge people but notice it's all about you and no one else.All you had saturday was hate,your hurting your self and others,i hope in time you'll admit your mistakes,all we tryed to do is help you!!! So sad,your just a lost cause.I hope you get out of this sport before you kill someone or yourself!!! ---------------------------- Re: if you saw it, you know. To: freeflyz Date Sent: Nov 11, 2002, 2:35 PM would you be proud of what you wrote if i was to post it publicly? I thought more of you. PDS ... pay attention. ---------------------------- Re: if you saw it, you know. From: freeflyz Date Sent: Nov 11, 2002, 2:41 PM Go ahead expose your true self to everone!!!!! No problem!!! <--- PERMISSION TO REPRINT ---------------------------- Re: if you saw it, you know. To: freeflyz Date Sent: Nov 11, 2002, 3:02 PM it seems that these things work in cycles. i am starting to put things into perspective just about the time you are losing your cool, showing me what i looked like with your actions. where is this going? PDS ... pay attention ---------------------------- and another thing To: freeflyz Date Sent: Nov 11, 2002, 3:03 PM you know my email address and phone number, fuckin use em. this pm stuff is a pain in the ass. PDS no more from luis. this was sunday, the day i buried Ela. The next day..... (timeline distortion. don't worry, youll get it. maybe) So let me use this time to relate another experience. Over the next week, I sat with all of this. And although i didn't truly feel i was there, i supposed for a moment what i would do if i could find that calm, peaceful place that Ela shared with me. And it came to me. Forgive. more pain can help no one. So i went there, after all of this and opened myself. I even took a friend out there to do a tandem and told tony i wanted him to do it. what was i thinking?!?!? anyway, apparently they were thinking the same thing and simply refused to take her up, thinking i was up to something, some kind of trap or something (quote). And get this, while i was off near the office trying to find some common ground with DZO and S&TA my friend was over with the buckeye dzrats drinkin beer. Apparently dwight and his buddy didn't know she was with me and started running thier mouths and actually laughing at my attempts to make peace until urgent looks and subvocal 'dude..' s from others brought them around. How telling. I unfortunately I have saved the best for last, this young lady, trying to be sociable with these people that I have been telling her are fundamentally good folks facing some difficult situations, she gives them her email address. So, they give her one back. OK? OK. At the end of this encounter, i realize that i have gotten nowhere, that these people are afraid of me and what i might do and have decided that I am out and to be discredited. OK, fuckem. I should have went to Eloy in the first place. Ela would still be jumping with us today. About a week later, i am checking my inbox and i get a mailer-daemon undeliverable from an address that i do not recognize. And it took me a minute to get it. Joanne had used my computer to email this one particularly nice young man at his email address: GFSPLAT@EMAIL.MSN.COM. Suprisingly, this address does not exist. coincidence? maybe. you be the judge. If you are thinking "wtf?" instead of "WTF!?!?!", read that email address again. I wonder if the dz.com forums are back up again, i want to quote little luis, who has recently been so kind as to tell me how much he loved Ela and how much he misses her and that he forgives me. thank you luis. not yet. ok now they are up, and i am actually going to leave all of these notes in, but actually go back up in insert the material i have been waiting for. OK? kinda like Memento, huh? Now i was pissed and confused. Why was everyone so afraid of me? This is for another conversation. But lets go back a day, to the day after Ela's stolen ash dive. The next day, November 10th. I went to Eloy with a small group of my family and took most of Ela's bones on her final earthly skydive. I'm a freak, i kept just a little to go up and down with me every jump. That was also an eventful day, lacking violence and anger, one that my parents will never forget and is also food for another conversation. A month later, on the night of the 300-way record completion, i was at a campfire with some of my skydiving family, pretty fuckin drunk and a lot sad. Someone asked about the picture in my helmet and in my logbook. These people had no idea why I behaved the way i did. So I told them. And I actually vocalized the conclusions that I had since come to: that Tony Langren's performance on that skydive was substandard and negligent. The equipment was improperly sized and in poor condition and that if I had not been so punch drunk in love with skydiving i would have recognized these things and taken us out of there. These are my opinions and I have every right to hold them and express them without censure. It was at this time that out of the shadows, literally, came a young man that i had never seen before. Screaming at me and calling me motherfucker, saying that no '100 jump know nothing' is going to talk about his friend that way. Oh shit, not again. He also said that he was an AFF instructor and that he wasnt going to let me get away with talking like that. Last time I checked, there is all kindsa legal precedent that indicates to me that I can say WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT without fear of violence. Risking a lawsuit? Maybe, but random violence? No. Admittedly, the practicality of this strategy is shaky at best but i digress. I felt I had some work to do here, first to calm this young man down so it didnt go any farther and then try to counteract the brainwashing he had apparently gotten out at DSC. i said "jumps don't make a man, living makes a man, so lets talk man to man" I was drunk, remember? I had my hands at my sides, i asked his name a few times and all he would tell me was that he was an 'AFF instructor, motherfucker'. So i said "Ok, Aff instructor motherfucker, there are things you don't understand here. Tony Langren deviated from standard AFF practices, fucked up and someone is dead. He did not do his job, he fucked up and someone i love is dead." (before anyone fires on me, wait and read farther and it will come together, trust me) The other people at the fire, some are employess at SDA were also trying to explain that regardless of the veracity of my claims, someone is dead and there is untold pain involved as well as alchohol and this brand of idiotic posturing by someone who was in reality not connected to the situation was not helping or welcome, so "just leave". I was close to this kid in a no threatening posture, no defense and he head butt me, drawing some blood. ( you need to work on that head butt, kid) I stepped back for a second, a little stunned and again, there were a bunch of people holding someone else back while i stood dazed and confused. I told everyone to relax, i was ok, it was ok. I truly felt that I was unimportant in this situation, in my mind it was imperative that this kid understood what was going on. I sent everyone back and stood in front of this kid who was ready to go again, bleeding and crying with my hands deliberately at my sides, asking his name. just tell me who you are, i have no idea who you are. He told me his name was Shea. i might be misspelling this. I shook his hand and introduced mysself and tried once again to explain to him that some bad things happened out there that night and there are serious questions that have to be answered (this is before the reports were released). Mistakes were made on the ground and in the air and someone precious is gone because of it. Shea then said "But you can't blame tony because that stupid bitch of a girl..." it was at this point i broke shea's nose for him and walked away. Shea, if your gonna take a shot, make it count, buddy. I walked out into the desert with a few concerned people with me. I was actually on the road to the outer firepit and this guy was chasing us! I did my best just to sit and wait as other people were trying to get him to just leave me alone but the vile things he was saying.... I snapped. I believe it was tye, travis and john who saved that young man a trip to the hospital and me to jail. It all just came home as i lay there on my back. I just realized the futility of it all and gave up. I don't know any other way to react and it is not getting me where i want to go. I am defeated. Follows is the get-out-of-jail-free card i promised earlier: To clarify my earlier statement, on the evening of november 2, I stood outside the hanger, face to face with Tony Langren just hours after Ela went in and said "Tony, Ela is dead because you did not do your job." and he replied "Your right, i fucked up." It was then that I turned around and screamed as I attacked the steel quanset hut that is DSC. WHY? If you go there today, i am sure will readily see the spot i was standing in. My hand still has not completely healed. My statements are my own opinions, but they are not grounded on conjecture or subjective deduction. They are based on documented facts and personal quotes. so last night, for some reason, i get a barrage of PM's from luis when i am not paying attention, and i mean a barrage. WTF? Hay From: freeflyz Date Sent: Jan 14, 2003, 10:28 PM Sky.I'm writing to tell you we should let by gones be by gones.I'm not a person to be to hold a gruge! i miss Ela has much as you do !!!! You have to remember she packed my parachute, only a couple of jumps old!ASk Travis i was never going to show anybody how to pack cause they did't have the heart to do it!!!!But Ela change my mind cause she showed me she wanted to do it with alll her HEART! Sky this shit has been really hard for me to deal with!!!!! Every day i think of her ---------------------------- From: freeflyz Date Sent: Jan 14, 2003, 10:35 PM so ---------------------------- From: freeflyz Date Sent: Jan 14, 2003, 10:40 PM Do you hate me that much SKY! ---------------------------- SO! From: freeflyz Date Sent:Jan 14, 2003, 10:44 PM I you do not want to for give me that's fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!But i forgive you!! so, you ask if i can forgive you? Well as a newly ordained minister of the universal life church, poof. your absolved of all your sins. your god forgives you. I cannot at this time see myself doing the same. if you want to walk the walk and show me how much you care, i beg you and yours to stay as far away from me as humanly possible. I am trying to get on with my live and you are uninvited. i know i should not post this. Bibliography -------------------------------------------------- Anybody know what happened in Buckeye? namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #2 January 15, 2003 oops. i am kinda freaked out right now, that should say WEST side folks. i dont want to edit that post, so here is the fix. sorry again, everybody.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 January 15, 2003 Dude, you could have asked before tossing out a PM, what ever your intentions were.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 January 15, 2003 AFF programs are altered all the time... I know a lot of DZ's that alter every jump for each student. If the instructor is rated and current, there are still a lot of things that can and probally will go wrong. Accusing and slandering a DZ and instructors should come with proof, and a lot of this post should have been done over IM and in person in my opinion... This is a no win for anyone Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
