Legal/employment questions

[skybytch 273]

My kid is having problems with his supervisor/employers. Need some advice from anyone who might know about this kind of stuff.

First problem is unkept promises. He was told when he went full time in June that they'd be getting him on the medical insurance. This still hadn't happened by November so he asked about it and was told they'd do that right away. It's now January 13th and he still has no medical insurance; he asked the secretary again today and was told that they are "reevaluating" their policy but he'd be covered by February 1st.

Second problem is his supervisor. Excuse the language, but this guy is one sick, fucked up asshole who shouldn't be supervising anyone. Dave isn't like many 19 year old guys in that his life doesn't revolve around getting drunk and trying to get laid. Larry has been harassing him for months. Since Dave doesn't talk about getting laid all the time, Larry has repeatedly "jokingly" said he must be gay. He's sent Dave out several times on company time to buy girlie mags for him to read at work. He's constantly telling dirty jokes and commenting on female customers. Dave went to Larry's supervisor a couple of months ago and told him what was going on, that it makes him uncomfortable and that it needed to stop. The supervisor talked with Larry and the shit stopped for about a week, but he started up again and hasn't stopped since.

Third thing is how Larry treats Dave regarding work, and some things that he tells him to do are, in my opinion anyway, totally wrong. Dave has been driving for the company, delivering and picking up rental equipment for the customers all over southern California. Larry expects Dave to drive over the speed limit, overload the truck and drive the truck even though there are mechanical problems (brakes, transmission problems, etc). If Dave is "taking too long" Larry screams at him on the cell phone to hurry up. If there's a problem with the truck Larry tells him to drive it anyway. If picking up another piece of equipment will overload the truck, Larry tells him to just pick it up and haul it anyway and "get back here cuz I have another delivery for you."

The list goes on. He sent Dave home one morning because Dave didn't call in on his day off to find out what time he was supposed to be at work - the schedule says 8:30 am but Larry expects him to come in as early as 4am at times... but can't be bothered to call Dave's cell phone and leave a message on the voice mail. No, Dave's supposed to "stop by" or call in - on his day off - to be sure Larry doesn't want him there earlier.

Dave's required to be at work at least 8 1/2 hours a day; the company takes 1/2 hour off his time for "lunch" (i.e. he's not getting paid for it), but Larry screams at him if he isn't working for the whole 8 1/2 hours.

Dave's also been required to work 10-13 hour days at least 10 days every month - there've been weeks that he's had to do 10+ hours a day for 5 days straight. Nowhere in the employee handbook is it mentioned that that much overtime is expected of him.

Dave's been depressed before, and he's showing the symptoms of depression again. Personally I think this time it's stress created by the dick he has to work under.

Dave's on his own now; he can't quit because he has bills to pay and he doesn't have money put away to get him through until he can get another job. He's been looking and has put out a couple of applications but those places aren't moving real fast on hiring. I'm not sure if the things I mentioned above are enough for his quit to be considered "justifiable" by the unemployment department, and even if they are it would take at least a month for him to get any benefits if the company fought the unemployment claim. And I really don't want to see him quit and get another job without somehow letting the company know they need to get rid of the dick they have running the store Dave works at - guaranteed he'll just do the same shit to some other person who can't afford to tell him to fuck off and die.

Any advice? Doesn't Dave have some rights? Is there anything he can do short of just walking?

I'm so furious I want to drive over there, reach down the asshole's throat, pull his fucking heart out and smile as I feel his blood dripping off my elbows.

[Zenister 0]

if the company is big enough to have a HR department have him go to them with the complaints..take the time to write out as accurately as possible the most heinous offences and take it to them..even upper level managers freak out when HR calls you to the carpet. Particularly on things like sexual harassment issues, (which some of these certainly are, although your son might not like looking at things that way.

good luck.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[skybytch 273]

Unfortunately, the company isn't that big; they've got three stores and the secretary he talked to about the insurance could be considered their entire "HR department."

[TomAiello 26]

Um, I can think of a couple relatively devious and shady ways to end up on either disability or unemployment. Especially if they encourage you to drive too fast. Any accident on company time is legally the company's responsibility--including medical bills, regardless of your insurance coverage.
I dunno. I'd probably just walk and become a dropzone bum.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhreeZone 20]

Speaking from the experiences of my former boss.. nothing makes a company move faster then the threat of a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[wmw999 2,588]

Young kids like that are easy to abuse, for exactly the reasons you outline. And he's being abused.

I realize you don't have the wherewithal to bail him out for a few months; can you rehearse with him what he says when he goes to talk to whoever is superior to his current (asshole) boss? Because he might be able to at least not be under this idiot any more. Otherwise, if he knows what he's saying and documents it (documentation, even stuff you do yourself if it's consistent, is key), he should have a case for collecting unemployment.

But McDonald's might be better than collecting unemployment. And Zenister is right, that's sexual harrassment as surely as squeezing a girl's tits is.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AndyMan 7]

The girlie mags and homophobic comments are more then enough to bring a sexual harassment suit. David being straight and same gender of his boss is of no issue. The harassment is clearly along sexual lines, and it's clearly making him feel uncomfortable. Know any lawyers at the DZ?

As to the truck... In Canada, that would be worth a report to the Workmans Compensation Board, I think. I dunno what agencies are in California. Ah, here it is... http://www.dir.ca.gov/DOSH/Complaint.htm. They even have an anonymous complaint process, but I dunno if that would help.

This might also be an interesting read: http://www.dir.ca.gov/DOSH/WorkersRights.htm.

In short, I would explore that site for all its worth...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[JJohnson 0]

Yes, he does have rights. Contact you labor board, I'm sure they can be of some assistance. Sometimes just mentioning them scares an employer into action. He could walk and sue for sexual harrassment now.
Every state has different policies, I'd suggest talking to a lawyer.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[pds 0]

lisa, my sympathy for dave.

i spent a lot of time dealing with HR matters and have enough experience to know....

promises are only as good as those who make them. if the company is not delivering on something, especially medical insurance (this is a big stall magnet for many small to medium firms) you can investigate the size of the company vs. the required insurance and file a complaint or threaten to leave or just fuckin leave. insurance is a huge expense and some companies will say ANYTHING to buy one more day of your life, cuz sayin stuff is usually free. investigate your options here.

second point: i don't know how far you guys want to take this, but you have a pat sexual harrasment case. not in the aspect of boss coming on to dave, but in a more fundamental way. dave is being harassed due to bosses perception of his sexuality and is being directed to do things that offend him. again, how far do you want to take it? and how far would it get: company size, resources, the incumbent state of the boss in question.....

about the overtime, i am not entirely clear about whether he MUST work overtime or risk seperation, but practically speaking if he doesnt want to lose his job to someone who will work overtime, give it to them., if they are not paying appropriately, document it and sue them. i would think that without the above stress and harrasment, a bit of overtime each week would be appreciated but as it is just plain hell.

document these concerns and go to local labor board and talk to them. they will have better advice.

my dumb ass would piss in his coffee pot, buy a handful of hardcore transexual mags and drop them on the secretaries desk with a goodbye note ,photocopies of all the previous porno run reciepts and advice not to contest my unemployment claim, key his car and deliver all of my complaints to the labor board, head to the unemployment office and get on the dole until someone worth my time hired me. but thats just me.


good luck and i hope my limited experience helps.

namaste, motherfucker.

[Dumpster 0]

I'm not sure about your location,, but here in Illinois there are several channels to go through out side of the companies "HR" department- You may want to start with your states Dept of Labor - (or equivalent-)

Easy Does It

[Dumpster 0]

I like your style, man!

Easy Does It

[skybytch 273]

Dave has written down much of what's happened in the past, and from this point on will be documenting exactly what is said, when it was said and who was around when it was said. He's also written down the insurance promise, and will be noting every time he's told to do something illegal or unsafe.

Thanks for the links, Andy. I've bookmarked them and will have Dave read all of it when he comes over tomorrow evening.

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Contact you labor board

I have absolutely no faith in California's labor board; I tried to contact them regarding a problem I was having with a former employer and couldn't even get through to a real person to explain the problem, much less get anything done about it.

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I'd suggest talking to a lawyer.

That's definitely next. I'm scouring the phone book right now for numbers to call tomorrow.

[skybytch 273]

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my dumb ass would piss in his coffee pot, buy a handful of hardcore transexual mags and drop them on the secretaries desk with a goodbye note ,photocopies of all the previous porno run reciepts and advice not to contest my unemployment claim, key his car and deliver all of my complaints to the labor board, head to the unemployment office and get on the dole until someone worth my time hired me

ROFLMAO!!! Thanks, I needed that!

[diablopilot 2]

I have no formal legal training, however I've been a supervisor in one form or another for the last 9 years.

He's got 3 options, as I'm sure you know, but I'll list them anyway.

1) Do nothing.
2) Quit.
3) Talk to increasingly higher levels of management to try to fix the situation.

#3 may lead to a solution, or may make things more uncomfortable. It probably will not lead to him being fired unless the employer is seriously stupid.

About the medical insurance.... I hope the agreement is in writing, either in the form of an employment contract, or an employee handbook. Tell him to get a copy of this agreement, NOW.

Second, Larry needs to be fired. This should be gently pointed out to upper management. Your kid should document EVERYTHING Larry does that is out of line when interacting with your kid. Tell Dave to keep a daily diary of things, (i.e. times and dates of requests for girly mags, all references to sexual preference, when asked/forced to drive the truck over legal limits and by how much!) this diary will be invaluable if Dave needs to prove his case. BTW I would suggest Dave refuse to pick up the "girly" mags as if he continues, it could be interpreted as acceptance of that kind of behavior. Remember if it comes to lawyers, their job is not to reveal the truth; it's to win for their client!

Also Dave should document his schedule and when he is forced to work overtime, and when he "misses" lunches... If at all possible he needs to have a photocopy record of his timecard.

Documentation is the key, even if it never goes to a courtroom, just having documentation can scare an employer into doing the right thing.

some good stuff here http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Wish you and him luck....

Oh yeah, don't rip his heart out, you'll stain your clothes, find a big dog to do it!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skybytch 273]

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Oh yeah, don't rip his heart out, you'll stain your clothes, find a big dog to do it!

Clothes are easy to replace and I'd really enjoy the feeling of the blood dripping off my elbow. Really I would. It just wouldn't be the same to let the dog have all the fun.

Thanks for the link!

[diablopilot 2]

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Clothes are easy to replace and I'd really enjoy the feeling of the blood dripping off my elbow. Really I would.

You scare me. I think you probably bite, among other really bad things!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[moodyskydiver 0]

Alot of really good advice floating around. I back up everything thats been said thus far.Definitely document everything..porn runs,unsafe conditions(loads,driving etc) inappropriate comments/actions,benefits retraction,etc etc.Write it all down very meticulously..times,dates,etc. hell have a witness sign it or note anyone who witnessed or knows about it(like the secretary who keeps giving the run around).Take it to the labor board and watch them eat this company alive.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[Deuce 1]

Hi Lisa, sorry to hear about the abusive situation.

I think your best bet is the OSHA complaint. They have more teeth than either the labor board, or the Equal Employment Opportunity Commision (sexual harrassment suit).

In short, I think he needs to find another job. If he can't get another job quickly, he needs to quit and apply himself to getting another job. Since he just started working full time, I doubt his unemployment benefits are going to amount to much, but it might get him some training to get a better job. In order to cover his ass he could file a complaint with EEOC and get an immediate right to sue form and have some shyster write a letter on lawyer stationary.

Lawyers work for money, and a nice kid driving a delivery truck will get cleaned out really quick for a minimal return.

It sounds like the employer is aware of the behaviour of their supervisor, and choose to tolerate it. It will be very difficult to force them to fire him if they don't want to.

One of the saddest, truest things is that sometimes the asshole wins. But your son will win if he quits and moves on. If he hangs in there until he has a breakdown of some sort at work, it will haunt him for a long time.

I really like Sky's idea, and your heart-out-of-the-throat thing, but in the end he hooked up with a bad outfit and needs to cutaway. He can miss one payment, he can get two easy shitty jobs to pay his bills until he gets something decent, and he'll be better off.

I worked at UPS when I was 19. A very, very hard job, but it paid pretty good.

Looking forward to seeing you Memorial Day!

[ltdiver 3]

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In Reply To
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I'd suggest talking to a lawyer.
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That's definitely next. I'm scouring the phone book right now for numbers to call tomorrow.

Egads! And I thought I had harassment at my last job! In fact, my old boss must have been worried about a law suit (his brother is a deputy DA), since he asked for a written resignation, along with the reason I left. (I had told him I'd found another job (which I had) as the real reason I was leaving).

Yes, get a lawyer and talk. I sat down with one myself and had a 2 hour chat (pro bono). Decided not to go through with a law suit, but -could- have.

Good luck to Dave. If I hear of a decent job opening I'll PM you.

ltdiver

Oh, and PS....I never -did- give him a written resignation. Perhaps he's still worried? :^)

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Gawain 0]

I am not a lawyer, and the recommendations to talk to a lawyer should (IMO) be seriously considered.

Broken Promises: Does Dave have it them in writing? This is critical when it comes to issues of work hours and benefit expectations. The company is not required to pay him for his lunch time. However, these poor conditions do aggravate the harassment.

Supervisor: Definitely speak to a lawyer. Not only is Dave being harassed (sexual and performance based), but he is also being asked to violate an untold number of OSHA and DOT codes. This further puts his life at risk, and could very well reveal criminal conduct of the company (an unsafe truck on the road puts the general population at risk too).

If Dave quits, it's an uphill battle justifying it and collecting unemployment. If he's separated and the company cites the "right" reasons (maliciously), then he may get the short end of the stick again.

Consult a lawyer and by all means encourage him to continue looking for another job. The hours and effort to do so are crazy, but the effort may pay off and that doesn't make a harassment case any less viable. I'm sorry he's going through this. Good Luck!

edit: spelling...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[airann 1]

DOCUMENTATION, WITNESSES, DATES AND DETAILS, FACTS, FACTS, and FACTS

Have him save the reciepts for the magazines, that is a good one.

These are the things that he needs BIG time.
He should keep a notebook. Later on time will distort his memory. He can sue the hell out of this company for every reason you mentioned. But, he will need some kind of evidence and documentation.

Nobody should be treated this way. Ever.

I had a slightly similar event in my last position. I was asked to file illegal insurance claims. One doctor did the work but didnt have a provider number - so file it under a doctor who does was what he wanted and they had been doing it for a considerable amount ot time to MEDICARE. NOPE, no way. I told him it was illegal and I couldnt do it.

It wasnt very long before he undermined my authority within my department. He got someone else to do it and when I found out - I stopped that.

And what do you know.... he asked me to resign. I told him No, that is something that I wouldnt normally do. He sent me home - 3 days later I was not needed anymore.

I could have sued for many other reasons, harassment, duress and tons of other stuff. But now I cant remember all the details. Damn it.

The whole experience was tramatic. Going to work on a daily basis I would damn near have panic attacks. I feel very sorry for your son. I couldnt quit either for financial reasons.

I should have the bad finacial stuff happened anyway.

~AirAnn~

[RevJim 0]

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Speaking from the experiences of my former boss.. nothing makes a company move faster then the threat of a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Lisa, though this sounds good, threats only tend to anger the management, and soon your son could find himself out of a job for other reasons. Paperwork can be fabricated easily to look like he deserved to be fired, and he'll have no proof otherwise.

My suggestion for him is to buy a good quality micro cassette recorder, voice activated. Always have it in his pocket, with an external mike if possible. I'm serious here. If he gets canned, he can pull it out as evidence and counter sue, or if it gets too bad to handle while he's working, he can use it to get the guy canned, as well as damages.

Do it right the first time, since many times you don't get a second chance.

Edit to add: Verbal agreements are binding in court, as long as their are witnesses and/or other means of proof (ie: Cassette tape).

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[tigra 0]

Lisa,

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Deuce on this. Yes, your son's rights are being stomped on, what the manager is doing is inappropriate and illegal. But so far his behaviour has been tolerated and the burden of proof is on your son. How far is he willing to go to fight it? So far, the employer is siding with the manager, and he'd have to work hard to prove anything. Your son's safety, health and happiness are worth more than ANY job. He needs to move on and put this past him. (advice I should be following myself, btw)

Wish him luck with whatever he decides to do!

maura

[kmcguffee 0]

Have him call OSHA and file a complaint about the substandard truck he is being required to drive and the speeds at which he is being required to drive. You can do it anonymously. OSHA has a lot of power. They can do surprise inspections if the complaints are serious enough.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[12bhi 0]

Bills are shitty,but dying in a vehicle due to poor
maintenance isn't good either.Iwould tell dave to get the hell out while he still can...I've worked for a
moron like larry,and I was almost killed a couple
times...If dave cant get help anywhere else to solve
this problem like osha etc.I would reccomend him
to either quit,or knock larry out and get fired.I dont
know how the occupational laws work there,but in
illinois if you get fired you can draw unemployment.
Bottom line is he needs to something and quick!
I say f%@k larry and move on to something bigger
and better