Politics, race, and other BS: Bush vs. U of M

[kallend 2,148]

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No - it's a demographic from the US Census. The full sentence, parts of which you snipped selectively, related to the state of affairs in Illinois.

Okay, I see your point. That demographic itself is not racist because it is a fact. I was just trying to say that the demographic brings us to conclusions that may or may not be true about a minority who happens to walk into the admissions office.

No problem. Not all states finance public education the same way. However, in IL (where I live in one of the affluent communites) there is no doubt that black kids, on average, get far less spent on their K-12 than do white kids, on average.

So the question is, in higher education should we ignore potentially smart kids who had a miserable K-12 experience in favor of possibly less smart kids who got a far better start because of where they live.

Another interesting fact to ponder: in college, women and minorites tend to outperform expectations based on their standardized test scores (SAT, ACT), whereas men and whites tend to underperform these expectations. As usual, this applies to population averages, not to specific individuals.

JK - white male, college professor for 31 years.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,118]

>And rather than "white wash" the cultural diversity out of our nation
> I'd prefer it were embraced and encouraged.

I agree, although I think that such encouragement of diversity should happen at the private level, rather than be supported by any government function.

>No, I don't think signs should have to be in 50 different languages,
> but standardized testing is based on the standard of the dominant
> culture and therefore is unfair to someone of a different backgourd.

Then make it fair. Have it written by a combination of authors of different backgrounds such that there is no benefit to any one racial/economic/religious background.

[rhino 0]

Agreed... Well said Bill....

[Jib 0]

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One word: pendulum.

Even if opportunities in this country now SEEM (to all you angry white males and others) equal for all, they are not. Hundreds of years of oppression and hate do not get mitigated in 30 - 40 years.

After a few centuries of shameless racism and even genocide by the culture of this country, maybe, just maybe, the pendulum of fairness should swing just a teeny bit back the other way - maybe even a teeny bit past straight. . .

It's not about race per se. It's about doing something to help right a great wrong. In a vacuum, discrimination of any kind, "reverse" or otherwise, is wrong. This country is not a vacuum.

Then how many generations does it take to "right a great wrong?"

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[PhillyKev 0]

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Then make it fair. Have it written by a combination of authors of different backgrounds such that there is no benefit to any one racial/economic/religious background.

Ok...well that works for handling the cultural bias in the entrance tests. But there's still the issue of less funding to public schools in minority neighborhoods. So they're still getting short changed. Less money means lower quality teachers and materials, means not as prepared to pass the entrance test. How is that inequality addressed? Obviously it should be in the way schools are funded, but that's not going to be rectified anytime soon, and what about the people who are almost done high school by the time they do change it?

I don't think the affirmative action is a permanent solution, it's a crutch to help even things out until the true reforms that are necessary are completed.

[billvon 3,118]

>But there's still the issue of less funding to public schools in minority neighborhoods.

OK, but that's a separate issue. That's a problem in _any_ poor neighborhood; it is not exclusive to minority neighborhoods. It depends on the area, and how big the school district is. (Note that things like police presence, public health etc often have the same problems.)

One solution is federal control of everything. They get in X dollars and give back Y dollars to each school district so everyone's the same. I don't like that approach very much; local control is generally better than federal control. If even a poor neighborhood chooses to spend more on schools by choosing who they elect, they should be allowed to do that. If they choose not to, then that's also fine - but then they bear some of the responsibility for having a cruddy district. Which is how it should be.

There will always be places where being poor or rich corresponds to one ethnic minority. You can find dirt-poor all white towns in West Virginia, wealthy asian communities in New York City. You cannot possibly come up with a plan that helps only disadvantaged minorities by targeting either poor towns or just one race. A better way to do it is to help poor people period through free education, welfare and job training - whatever color they are.