Hooknswoop 19 #1 February 6, 2003 They have a Doppler radar track for each piece of shuttle debris and a satellite picture of the debris field. Why not overlay a grid on the photo and match it up to the Doppler images? That would give NASA a GPS grid coordinate for each piece. They could then give each team an over-head picture and grid coordinates for them to go get the pieces. They take their GPS's and go collect the pieces. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akaGQ 0 #2 February 6, 2003 Quote They have a Doppler radar track for each piece of shuttle debris and a satellite picture of the debris field. Why not overlay a grid on the photo and match it up to the Doppler images? That would give NASA a GPS grid coordinate for each piece. They could then give each team an over-head picture and grid coordinates for them to go get the pieces. They take their GPS's and go collect the pieces. Hook Ok Hook you just confused the hell outta me- GQ ... it was the love of the air and sky and flying, the lure of adventure, the appreciation of beauty ... -Charles Lindberg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #3 February 6, 2003 I thought that's what they said they were going to do last night on the news. DJan might know since she works at NOAA.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 February 6, 2003 QuoteI thought that's what they said they were going to do last night on the news. Cool, I was waiting to see if they would anounce that, and I hadn't seen it in the news. Thanks, Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 February 6, 2003 At best those Doppler radar tracks are going to be off by several hundred feet because the radar tracks don't go all the way down to the ground. Also, you're talking about thousands of pieces, that's going to create quite a bit of clutter. Even if you had precise GPS coordinates for debris, actually finding it could be -quite- challenging. There's an entire pseudo-sport called Geocaching that's based on the deceptively simple concept of GPS hide-and-go-seek. It's not quite as easy as it would at first appear.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #6 February 6, 2003 plus the resolution & update rates on weather doppler is terrible, its not like there was an E8 or AWACS tracking the debris, but it would give a very rough estimate (say perhaps 10km for pieces over 10m) add that doppler would have lost the debris at a significant altitude and you still have a HUGE search area even for larger pieces..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #7 February 6, 2003 -warnings about numerous toxic & explosive objects that are amoung the debris: danger to human life is posed by the explosive portions of the AAD's installed in the astronauts emergency parachutes?? What kind of AAD's would NASA have?? Smiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #8 February 6, 2003 Quote What kind of AAD's would NASA have?? Whatever it is, it is internal and the ones I got to see up close didn't have the parachute, AAD, O2 bottles, etc installed becvause we dropped them into the water. Here is a pic. I don't remember seeing any rip cord or rip cord pocket. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #9 February 6, 2003 >What kind of AAD's would NASA have?? Taz tested their bailout system once a year; I think it was called the inflight crew escape system. The pilot chute/drouge and the main parachute deployment is initiated by the AAD, which is a specific NASA design. There is a manual handle, but according to Taz it didn't actually deploy anything, just closed a switch which told the AAD to deploy early. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #10 February 6, 2003 thought this was a nice cartoon for the astronauts if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #11 February 6, 2003 Quote Taz tested their bailout system once a year; I think it was called the inflight crew escape system. The pilot chute/drouge and the main parachute deployment is initiated by the AAD, which is a specific NASA design. There is a manual handle, but according to Taz it didn't actually deploy anything, just closed a switch which told the AAD to deploy early. So how would this inflight crew escape system work? when would it be used ? ....for sitting on the launch pad before solid boosters lit? or during final flare at the end of the runway??? Smiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 February 6, 2003 QuoteSo how would this inflight crew escape system work? when would it be used ? ....for sitting on the launch pad before solid boosters lit? or during final flare at the end of the runway??? It was designed and built after the Challenger disaster. It wouldn't have helped them or the Columbia. The concept is to blow the hatch, extend a curved pole, hook in and jump. They always trained for a water water landing. In reality, the system wouldn't work. There is only a small window of where you can actually get out. Columbia had 2 ejection seats installed for the first flight, then they were removed. You rie it up, you ride it down, like a helicopter, your not geting out. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #13 February 6, 2003 >So how would this inflight crew escape system work? The orbiter is leveled out at 30,000 feet and put in a best-glide stabilized descent. A valve is blown to depressurize the orbiter; the astronauts are wearing altitude protection suits so they do not become hypoxic. Explosive bolts and ejection rockets blow the side hatch away from the orbiter. A long pole is deployed out the hatchway. The astronauts attach a tether to the pole and slide out and away from the orbiter (the pole keeps them from hitting the wing.) The last one exits around 10,000 feet. An AAD system deploys a pilot chute, a drouge, and then finally a big round parachute. >when would it be used ? Only when the orbiter can successfully slow to normal glide speeds at or above 30,000 feet. It's primarily intended for a normal reentry where the orbiter cannot make it to a safe landing site, or an aborted launch where it cannot make it to a safe landing site. These type of aborts are generally labeled 'contingency aborts' which is a NASA way of saying you might be able to save the crew but not the vehicle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #14 February 6, 2003 Quote Quote What kind of AAD's would NASA have?? Whatever it is, it is internal and the ones I got to see up close didn't have the parachute, AAD, O2 bottles, etc installed becvause we dropped them into the water. Here is a pic. I don't remember seeing any rip cord or rip cord pocket. Hook is this statement true? -warning about the numerous toxic and explosive objects that are amongst the debris was a specific warning about the danger to human life posed by the explosive portions of the AAD's installed in the astronauts emergency parachutes??? Would NASA have their own special AAD's that use a block of Cemtex or something to release the pilot chute? It would make sense that they aren't using a standard Cypres because the extreme logistics of a shuttle ride could make them problematic. (eg, the shuttle starts descending and everyone arms their AAD, a leak in a seal evacuates the air - a not improbable scenario according to NASA - and at some point in the descent of 150 m/sec maximum 70 m/sec average the cabin is suddenly filled with activated reserves....a Cypres activates at 38 m/sec. Smiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #15 February 6, 2003 Quote thought this was a nice cartoon for the astronauts it is also great to post questions here, and get such a good response...I am ashamed I never educated myself before now. Smiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #16 February 6, 2003 Quoteis this statement true? -warning about the numerous toxic and explosive objects that are amongst the debris was a specific warning about the danger to human life posed by the explosive portions of the AAD's installed in the astronauts emergency parachutes??? I don't think the AAD's pose any threat. I could be wrong, but I think they don't want that stuff to walk away and show up on Ebay in 6 months. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #17 February 6, 2003 There was an extensive write-up in Parachutist on the bail-out system right after the testing was done. The pole telecopically extends out the side of the orbiter on the port side and curves down. The China Lake guys tested all that stuff if my memory is correct. Anyway, it was a good article. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #18 February 7, 2003 Debris Recovery,,,, tough situation... Complicated by this fact..... With many many teams out in the woods and fields of N. E. Texas.... etc... when something is found... How will they know what is shuttle related, and what isn't????? I bet there will be thousands of metal, plastic,and hardware pieces,,,which will be "found"... It will be hard to determine what is a "real" shuttle related part,, and what may be your standard junk,, which could have come off a 4 wheeler, used by hunters, or off an ATV which was crashed into something,, and left parts, scattered on the ground,,, 2 or 5 or even 10 years ago....Sure,, everything can be evaluated by knowledgeable crews,, but it is my guess that there will be "tons" of stuff that is just your basic ground bound Junk.....so there will have to be a lot of time spent to decipher it........ I was also wondering what total percentage of the orbiter is EXPECTED to be recovered,, and what percentage may have melted, vaporized or otherwise been completely destroyed.... I am surely no expert,, but I would be real surprised if more than 50% of the total package can be recovered,,,,, sad...... Peace be with the crew,,,, and with all those associated with our space program... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
