Man ticketed for having noisy flag

[Cornholio 0]

Check this out. This guy was given a ticket for flying his flag...

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=6957692&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_id=141265&rfi=6

By Norb Franz, Macomb Daily Staff Writer February 06, 2003
Macomb Daily photo by David N. Posavetz
Chesterfield Township resident Ray Saelens is dumbfounded that he received a ticket for having a "noisy" flag.
For Ray Saelens, the sight and sound of an American flag whipping in the wind has special meaning.

"To me, the noise of the flag is the voices of everyone who's died for this country," the 51-year-old Chesterfield Township resident said.

But that "noise" has resulted in a ticket charging him with violating a local noise ordinance, after a neighbor complained to police that the flag behind Saelens' home prevents him from sleeping.

Saelens, a self-employed mason, paid a company $4,000 to install a 50-foot flagpole behind his upscale home along Anchor Bay, following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

When next-door neighbor Mark Grucz complained about the noise of the 18- by 12-foot flag, township officers issued Saelens a warning. Saelens switched a year ago from a nylon flag to a polyester flag that supplier Rocket Enterprises told him "would not fly as well, but make less noise."

"Never in a million years did I think I would bother someone by flying a flag," he said.

Late Monday night, a police officer knocked at the door of his home on Pointe Lakeview street, and handed him the citation.

"He could hardly look me in the eye," Saelens said.

Chesterfield police spokesman Jim Gates said the flag dispute is unprecedented.

"This is one of a kind," he said. But Gates said the department had no choice but to issue the violation when someone complains about noise.

Basically, police served as the conduit for the matter to be settled in court.

"We don't have a dog in this fight. We're doing our clerical duty in this matter," Gates explained.

Grucz could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

But for Saelens, the neighborly dispute is particularly troubling with the United States on the brink of war, and after the death of the seven space shuttle Columbia astronauts last weekend.

Because flags can quickly become weathered, Saelens pays $637 a year for Rocket Enterprises to replace his flag every three months.

"I did not want a flag that would be tattered and ripped. If I'm going to commit to a flag ... I'm going to have a flag in good condition all the time," he said.

The case is expected to be reviewed by a township attorney. Expect Saelens to put up a patriotic fight.

"You're going to have to pry it out of my hands," he said.

©The Macomb Daily 2003


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Ok, my opinion on this is this.... I think this guy deserves the ticket. No I am not anti-patriotic, but according to the FLAG rules established here,http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#1 , it says

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It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

If this guy had it lit up at night, that's one thing. But I think this is a bit outrageous.

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[fool 0]

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If this guy had it lit up at night, that's one thing. But I think this is a bit outrageous.

[Viking 0]

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It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

ummmmm that has nothing to do with the noise complaint from his neighbor. Its about noise not wether or not he has a spotlight shining on it.

I wonder if the neighbor would go after the trees if they made to much noise.

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[diverdriver 7]

Ever heard a flagpole rope slapping the pole in the wind? Maybe it's not the flag but the rope that is anoying and waking him up at night. Remember how the press doesn't print ALL the facts in a story? I think this should be thrown out of court but if it's something other than the flag itself then I think it can be adressed. I know he replaced the flag type once already so I don't know what else the guy could do. Some serious communication needs to happen it seems.

Chris

[narcimund 0]

Noise is noise whether it comes from a flag or Mother Theresa's Food For the Poor Minority Children's Kitchen. Being a good neighbor is important.

Using patriotism as a PR lever to justify being an asshole is revolting. This guy gets the Jerk of the Day award.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[FallRate 0]

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Chesterfield police spokesman Jim Gates said the flag dispute is unprecedented.

Incorrect. There was a case just like this within the past ten years. Can't remember where it took place, but it was another noisy flag keeping people awake.

I wonder if it would be acceptable for me to sing the Star Spangled Banner at the top of my lungs on my back porch at two in the morning?

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"To me, the noise of the flag is the voices of everyone who's died for this country," the 51-year-old Chesterfield Township resident said.

Why is it that lunacy is acceptable (often revered) if it is grounded in religion or patriotism?

FallRate

[bobsled92 0]

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Chesterfield police spokesman Jim Gates said the flag dispute is unprecedented.

Incorrect. There was a case just like this within the past ten years. Can't remember where it took place, but it was another noisy flag keeping people awake.

I wonder if it would be acceptable for me to sing the Star Spangled Banner at the top of my lungs on my back porch at two in the morning?

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"To me, the noise of the flag is the voices of everyone who's died for this country," the 51-year-old Chesterfield Township resident said.

Why is it that lunacy is acceptable (often revered) if it is grounded in religion or patriotism?

FallRate

This has been seen as questionable in the U.S. public eye:
KING of THE HILL: Hank Hill's neighbor got a flag from his Army base and flew it off a 16' pole and it needed a 50' pole so it wouldn't flap across Hanks entire house.

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[skydiverbrian 0]

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Being a good neighbor is important.

True 'dat. Sounds a little ridiculous that the rhythmic "swat" of a flag in the wind would keep someone awake. Perhaps the insomniac neighbor is a little over-sensitive. What does he do during the rain or thunder? Seems to me that the problem is a personal one, and lies not in the hands of the flag-flier.

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[PhreeZone 20]

18*12 foot flags don't "swat" they CRACK. They make a lot of noise for how small they are. I'm betting its more the flag hard ware banging up against the pole thats causing the issue.

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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[kmcguffee 0]

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Ok, my opinion on this is this.... I think this guy deserves the ticket. No I am not anti-patriotic, but according to the FLAG rules established here,http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#1 , it says
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It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

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If this guy had it lit up at night, that's one thing. But I think this is a bit outrageous.

The guy is being ticketed for violating the noise ordnance not violating the customs and courtesies of the US Flag. Sounds to me like the neighbor has a flag pole stuck up his ass. He needs to get over it. A large flag is not loud except in gale force winds. There is some other personal feud between these guys that is not being reported.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[newshooter12 0]

I wonder if the neighbor will complain to the police on windy days or all the time????