Stupid government move of the day

[billvon 3,114]

There is currently a net-metering law in California that says if I generate electric power via solar or wind or geothermal or any other renewable resource, I can use that to offset my power bill. Basically if I generate more than I'm using the meter spins backwards, and I only pay for what the meter reads. This makes sense to me since it helps me (I pay less for power) it helps my neighbors (fewer blackouts with more generation) and helps the utility (solar peaks during the day, when load peaks, so they have to run their expensive peaker plants less often.)

During the energy crisis I put up a 'guerilla' solar power system that generated about a kilowatt of power. I fed that back to the utility during the day, and ran off batteries at night. I made sure to always use at least a few kilowatt-hours a month more than I generated to avoid getting 'caught'; you're supposed to sign an agreement, get a building permit, have about six inspections etc before you start doing it.

Now that I moved, I'm putting in a 100% legal system, with all the building permits, rebate forms, inspections etc. I'm doing this partly because it's fun, partly because I think it's important to not use too much non-renewable power, and partly to save money. Once it's done legally you can generate a lot more than you use. You don't get this money back but your electric bill does go to zero which is nice, and the extra power helps out California (and presumably the utility, who is getting power for free.)

Well, I just found out that the state government is proposing something called 'exit fees.' Basically they want to charge me X dollars per kilowatt hour for every kwhr I _produce._ Who in their right mind is going to put up a grid interactive solar power system if the power they give back to the utility costs _them_ money? Next thing you know it will cost 25 cents to turn in a recyclable bottle.

For discouraging people from giving renewable power back to California for free, the California public utilites commission gets the stupid government move of the day award.

[JJohnson 0]

Well there is one thing California doe not have going for it! Whatta crock.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[Schroeder 0]

wow that's stupid. I would love to hear the logic behind that one.

[n2skdvn 0]

they must be getting consulting from bill gates

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[quade 4]

I can almost guaran-freekin'-tee the government didn't come up with that idea all by themselves.

It would be "interesting" to see what power companies are actualy behind it.

BTW, you didn't happen to see the 60 Minutes piece last night about "Montana Power" did you? Sheesh, and I thought OUR state power companies and government was stupid.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

If I were in your shoes, I would have my house taken off the grid completely. Power your own house, don't feed any energy back to Sempura or SDG&E or whomever. Then you are not tied into the regulated utility.

Your state representative would be interested in learning this too I bet, they're probably not paying too much attention.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,114]

>Well there is one thing California doe not have going for it!

I keep telling people, this is a miserable place to live! Texas is much nicer, and it's on the way.

[skreamer 1]

Quote

I can almost guaran-freekin'-tee the government didn't come up with that idea all by themselves.

It would be "interesting" to see what power companies are actualy behind it.

Power companies dicating your state's laws and regulations? Impossible!
Next you'll be telling me oil companies can dictate your country's foreign policies...

[diverdriver 7]

California, I knew they were a bunch of weirdos. What a crock. Which politician on crack thought that one up? Friggin idiots.

[JJohnson 0]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[dbattman 0]

So just out of curiosity Bill, what did your 1KW solar generator cost you? How many Joules of storage do you have setup?

[flyhi 24]

Totally impressed. So, were you generating DC power and running your house off of that? Did you buy special appliances and lighting, or did you run an inverter/alternator to convert to AC?

Sounds like the start-up costs coupled with the new fee could easily put the kaibosh on anyone getting into it legitimately.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[billvon 3,114]

>So just out of curiosity Bill, what did your 1KW solar generator cost
>you? How many Joules of storage do you have setup?

Not sure of the cost; it was collected via things bought on Ebay. Estimate would be around $3500.

Battery storage was small, around 4 kwhr. In my case it ran a refrigerator, computers, TV and some lights.

(flyhi says)

>So, were you generating DC power and running your house off of
> that? Did you buy special appliances and lighting, or did you run an
> inverter/alternator to convert to AC?

Appliances were standard 120VAC; they ran off a Prosine 1000 inverter. The cheaper ones couldn't start things like refrigerators.

[Push 0]

Seriously, whats wrong with your country? I want to know, it's been bothering me for a long time. It seems that for every smart move somebody makes in the US you have at least 20 stupid things done.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[quade 4]

Quote

Seriously, whats wrong with your country?

There's nothing "wrong" with our country.

It is a simple yin/yang equation wherein the evil in the system is constant and in direct and equal proportion to the good.

Because billvon decided to do something "good" he must now be punished. Simple really.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[dterrick 0]

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Next thing you know it will cost 25 cents to turn in a recyclable bottle.

Well, Bill, maybe not $0.25, but here in Canada we pay an "environmental levy fee" of $0.02 on EVERY plastic bottle we buy and $0.10 on every litre of motor oil. There's more I know but won't burden you with ...

Can you just completely disconnect and run self-sufficiently? Here, our utilities have a "fee fee", that is, even if you use $0/month, just to stay connected costs about $15. Go figure.

Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[happythoughts 0]

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>Well there is one thing California doe not have going for it!

I keep telling people, this is a miserable place to live! Texas is much nicer, and it's on the way.

Texas seems ok, but a lot of people don't want to leave the US.

[fool 0]

That's different though Dave. That's when we BUY the item in question. We of course (in our wonderful province) don't get a refund for some things, but what can you do? They certainly don't charge us to turn them back in.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[Push 0]

Sorry, I didn't mean it in the deriding way that it came out. Sometimes I do wonder though.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[rhino 0]

Wow... What kind of solar power are you using? Where can I find it?

Rhino

[billvon 3,114]

>Well, Bill, maybe not $0.25, but here in Canada we pay
>an "environmental levy fee" of $0.02 on EVERY plastic bottle we buy.

So do we; it's a 5 to 10 cent deposit that you get back when you return the bottle.

[billvon 3,114]

>Wow... What kind of solar power are you using? Where can I find it?

Solar photovoltaic. You put the panels in the sun and they generate power, between 100 and 200 watts a panel. The output is DC so you need an inverter to turn it into AC, and batteries if you want to store it.

You can get them in a lot of places. Home Depot sells systems now.

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Seriously, whats wrong with your country? I want to know, it's been bothering me for a long time. It seems that for every smart move somebody makes in the US you have at least 20 stupid things done.

that would be "democracy in action", where everyones voice gets heard and heeded to the exent their veiw can be expoited for political or financial gain, no matter how ignorant or unenlightned the opinion or the real effects on others lives.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Gawain 0]

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Seriously, whats wrong with your country?

As opposed to what?

Quote

I want to know, it's been bothering me for a long time. It seems that for every smart move somebody makes in the US you have at least 20 stupid things done.

Please share these stupid things...I know you'd love to.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[dterrick 0]

James, I refute your arguement.

Bill suggested it would cost money to "turn in" a bottle. Who would do that? Here, it costs "nothing" - or appears to - because we have ALREADY paid the "turn in fee".

The economics of Public goods is quite interesting to me as it was among my studies at university. The end result of the 2 systems is similar - if ten percent of bottles are turned in but every purchase is charged $0.02, the net Revenue per bottle returned is $0.20 but the additional "product" is 9 bottles in the landfill. With a $0.25 fee, there would be 10 bottles in the landfill but also enough fewer jobs to equal the lost revenue of "the system".

Methinks the situation Bill is getting into is a view of the classical Capitalistic model where the User pays for the first line use of the product and damn the secondary effects. That is, should Bill want to drink a drink, he pays for the drink anbd nothing more. If he ALSO wants to be environmentally conscious and chooses to recycle said drink bottle, he then pays separately for THAT service.

The Socialistic model assigns a value to the public "Good" - such as the recycling program - and implements a 'consumption tax' to pay for that Good. Because such Goods (like a library or a park) are not universally used, the direct cost to each user would be too high to support the Good its self and the Good would cease to exist. Other examples where either Chartered Monopolies or taxes have been used to 'create' products include the telephone system (now deregulated), the electric system (deregulation in California caused many of their current problems) and the highway system (income tax and fuel taxes - still NOT deregulated except for "toll roads" )

Bill's power company wants to use its power over a smaller producer (Bill) to artificially restrict supply and maintain their price and profit. If the state were to pass a law REQUIRING his power company to buy his product at the same rate he pays them for theirs, more people would likely produce their own power. Then however, the Capitalist power company would buy up the generator companies and raise the price of the equipment to the point where their loss of revenue on the sale of electricity was eqlled by their gains on the sale of generating equipment. This is also known as a "Zero sum Game" and is a common tool of Public Policy.

...of course, what's NOT been said in any of this is WHO controls the jobs that are CREATED when a new Public good is Created... "They" of course are the "Friends" of the politicians in power at the time.

See, it really IS a system.
Dave
PS: Good for You Bill! Now that you're legal, do like Keanu did in The Matrix. Take the red pill and 'disconnect from the system'

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)