quade 4 #51 February 21, 2003 QuoteDoes that mean non Americans aren't entitled to opinions? It only means that the Constitution guarantees it and her right to express it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #52 February 21, 2003 QuoteCan they disagree without being denigrated as ingrates and fair weather friends? Sure I skydive with and am friends with a guy that had a sex change operation. and no I am not attacted to him/her. I strongly disagree with her lifestyle. But them again she's not selling arms to Iraq. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #53 February 21, 2003 First off here is what I think about eprotest: http://liveupdate.lrmproject.com/Big570/Admin/Headlines.asp?TableNo=2&TableName=ThirdList Feel free to use the email addresses to tell them what you think. Furthermore, while I am not going to argue conclusively for it. I have heard it stressed in more than one forum that they would like people to stay on the phone at least one minute. At least a minor goal of this is to cause havoc with the communications systems thus gaining publicity. Quade: I was not gonna say anything personal until you defended Jane Fonda. I think you are grossly wrong. Jane Fonda is an embarassment. She is not remorseful nor particularly 'un-proud' of her actions and if you do a little research you will find that while the ever popular chain emails are not true, 90% of the underlying story is. My father is a Vietnam Vet and many in the jumping community are as well. Whether you realize it or not, her actions were a direct insult to them and their brothers at arms. If you choose to be anti-war, liberal, etc, etc. That is your right. Just remember it was paid for in blood! American blood of sons and fathers. Including those that Jane Fonda choose to metaphorically spit on. Quote"The protection of our citizens, the spirit and honor of our country, require that force should be interposed to a certain degree." --Thomas Jefferson: Confidential Message on Spanish Spoilations, 1805. ME 3:402 "Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it. But the temper and folly of our enemies may not leave this in our choice." --Thomas Jefferson to C. W. F. Dumas, 1786. ME 5:310 "I am ever unwilling that [peace] should be disturbed as long as the rights and interests of the nations can be preserved. But whensoever hostile aggressions on these require a resort to war, we must meet our duty and convince the world that we are just friends and brave enemies." --Thomas Jefferson to Andrew Jackson, 1806. ME 19:156 Colin Powell "Force should always be a lost resort. I have preached this for most of my professional life as a soldier and as a diplomat. But it must be a resort." (Secretary of State, former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, before the UN, February 14, 2003) So long as there are men there will be wars --Albert Einstein The purpose of all war is ultimately peace. --Saint Augustine War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. --John Stuart Mill -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #54 February 21, 2003 Quote seems to be near universal opposition to going to war until the UN inspectors declare Iraq in non-compliance. funny I live in florida in a retirement area and I see almost 100% of the ppl saying we should go in now. I guess it must be who we (you and I) hang out with Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #55 February 21, 2003 Friends of mine (the Mom) used to babysit for Jane Fonda. For all fairness she is dumb as a brick and could plead "stupidity" rather than treason. (I love our Vets, country, family and our sport but I didn't vote for G.W.>>top ranck Masonic/Skull) LOve, -Grant p.s. I would give my life to defend OUR Country._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #56 February 21, 2003 I think we're both on the same side of the fence here. All I was trying to do was point out the hypocrisy of people bashing Sheen (remember how this thread started?) for speaking out. The fact is both sides use actors for the same reasons. The problem is that only the actors people personally agree with seem to be correct.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #57 February 21, 2003 QuoteQuade: I was not gonna say anything personal until you defended Jane Fonda. Me? Defend Jane Fonda? Hardly. What I did want to do was point out that much of what she is accused of doing and certainly the very worst of what she is accused of doing never actually happened. Yes, she visited the north. Yes, she posed for photos. Yes, she made anti-war statements to Congress. No. She did not hand over notes from POWs and subsequently get them killed. It never happened. My only interest in the Jane Fonda story is the real story. If you want to hate her for what she did -- fine with me. Just don't hate her for something that never happened.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #58 February 21, 2003 Quote (remember how this thread started?) Wasn't it something to do with boobs? Mmmmmm. Boooooobs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #59 February 21, 2003 I have done extensive research in the past on the subject and sent out a large email response contradicting the 'notes' email. However, Fonda has always been very much a fan of communism and has made numerous comments about it both involving the Soviet Union and Vietnam. She made six broadcasts over communist state-funded Radio Hanoi during July 1972. On July 14th, she said "This is Jane Fonda speaking from Hanoi, and I'm speaking particularly to the U.S servicemen...I don't know what your officers tell you...but [your] weapons are illegal and that's not just rhetoric...The men who are ordering you to use these weapons are war criminals according to international law, and in the past, in Germany and Japan, men who committed these kinds of crimes were tried and executed." In an interview with Rolling Stone, she said (relatively recently) Are you saying that going to Hanoi didn't have the desired effect?" Fonda answered "No. Going was important." As far as torture of Americans she claims she never said no Americans were tortured, only that "Those POWs who implied a systemic policy of torture were lying." I see your point about celebrity opinions, but I think she is a very poor choice of reference. She does not deserve to share the same html code as Reagan.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #60 February 21, 2003 QuoteSection 3 Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. Remember Patty Hearst holding up a bank with bank-camera film of the event ? Saw her on a "celebrity roast" on tv about a month ago. It seems that kids of rich and famous families don't seem to go to jail as much. Having Henry Fonda as her father was probably the reason that she wasn't at least arrested. Hanoi Jane was photographed sitting behind a gunsight and imagining see American planes. Right now, it seems like just a melodramatic moment in someones life. In the 70's, I was writing letters to my brother who was flying those planes in VN, so I took it personally. When she shows up as a protester at whatever event now, she is showing support for the cause and giving aid through her celebrity status. The appearance of a celebrity gives press coverage and some legitimacy to a cause. Her appearance in the photo aided the North Vietnamese. Her help was probably on a scale too small to pursue in court, but enough to piss me off. That said, I think she was naive and has never outgrown that. I have never read anything from her that was well reasoned. She is a child of priviledge and doesn't seem to grasp the reality that the rest of us live in. Just because she is a moron, does not mean that other celebrities cannot have good factual arguments for their beliefs. Most articles do not have any factual quotes though, just photo ops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #61 February 21, 2003 Quote Quote seems to be near universal opposition to going to war until the UN inspectors declare Iraq in non-compliance. funny I live in florida in a retirement area and I see almost 100% of the ppl saying we should go in now. I guess it must be who we (you and I) hang out with I told you that. I live in a wealthy Chicago suburb and most of my neighbors are medical doctors, lawyers (yuk), architects, professional engineers, stockbrokers, etc.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #62 February 21, 2003 QuoteI see your point about celebrity opinions, but I think she is a very poor choice of reference. She does not deserve to share the same html code as Reagan. Again, to be accurate, it wasn't me that first brought her into this conversation, someone else did. Further, I didn't compare her to Reagan -- I compared her to Heston.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #63 February 22, 2003 QuoteI told you that. I live in a wealthy Chicago suburb and most of my neighbors are medical doctors, lawyers (yuk), architects, professional engineers, stockbrokers, etc. Chicago has either the largest or second largest population of Iraqi immigrants in the nation. Are you sure that is not contributing to their thought process? "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mindcake 0 #64 February 22, 2003 Sounds like Jefferson (TJ as I like to refer to him) was just using nicer language to justify war. Nice language dose not mean that TJ dislikes war, it only means that he had a way with words. Don´t belive the hype Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #65 February 22, 2003 QuoteQuoteI told you that. I live in a wealthy Chicago suburb and most of my neighbors are medical doctors, lawyers (yuk), architects, professional engineers, stockbrokers, etc. Chicago has either the largest or second largest population of Iraqi immigrants in the nation. Are you sure that is not contributing to their thought process? We also have the largest number of Poles anywhere in the world outside of Warsaw, so I expect that would cancel out any effect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #66 February 22, 2003 QuoteWe also have the largest number of Poles anywhere in the world outside of Warsaw, so I expect that would cancel out any effect. What do the Poles have to do with it? "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #67 February 22, 2003 Quote Quote We also have the largest number of Poles anywhere in the world outside of Warsaw, so I expect that would cancel out any effect. What do the Poles have to do with it? Nothing - just like the Iraqis in Chicago We have 5 million people in the metropolitan area, and a miniscule fraction is from Iraq.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #68 February 22, 2003 QuoteNothing - just like the Iraqis in Chicago We have 5 million people in the metropolitan area, and a miniscule fraction is from Iraq So, do you think you can answer a question without being a complete smartass...............Dr? "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
