billvon 3,116 #1 February 17, 2003 On Saturday, Amy, Judy, Keith and I went to a peace rally in San Diego. It ended up being a lot larger than expected - police estimated well over 5000, with one guy counting ~9200 as the parade passed by him. The police were great, directing traffic and keeping stragglers out of the (active) streets. It started near the Federal Building in San Diego, then wound its way down the street to the waterfront, where the parade circled back near the cruise ship terminals and headed back to the Federal Plaza. Squeezing 9000 people into the plaza was tough, and it took a lot of urging from police to get everyone out of the street so they could reopen it to traffic. At the plaza there were a few speakers. One was interesting in terms of the facts he presented, from a guy from "veterans for peace," an organization I've come to admire. Another touching one was from a woman who had been born and raised in Iraq. She reminded the crowd that if the bombs do start dropping it will be her parents, siblings and relatives who will die, not just some anonymous fanatic guys in turbans. The crowd was older than I thought it would be. There were college students, but they were outnumbered by middle age and elderly marchers. There were seven pro-war protesters that I could count (at least seven with signs) including two marines who carried "bomb Iraq" signs. At one point they were arguing with a woman, and the argument got pretty heated. "That's easy for you to say, lady," he said at one point when she made a few points for peace over war. "I could lose my job!" The extremists were fun to watch. One sign argued "Down with the administration! Up with matriarchy!" Another sign said "George Bush broke my surfboard;" he was carrying half a surfboard. It was interesting watching people in cars who drove by, most of whom were held up by the traffic jam the parade caused. Most people honked in support; a few even had signs of their own. Most SUV's and all the long black limos yelled at us as we walked by. At one point a frustrated limo driver started laying on the horn, so we of course clapped and cheered, which just made him madder. After all was said and done the four of us ended up missing half a day of jumping, but I was glad that we had at least gotten together with other San Diegans to voice our opinion in a very public way. I doubt it will have any effect but at least we tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 17, 2003 Aren't you glad that the US service men and women have fought and died for you, so you could hold your rally? I don't agree with your views, but damnit, I'm proud to live in a country where you can voice them.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 February 17, 2003 Dave -- Are you suggesting that this war is about freedom of speech? Let's be clear about something -- Saddam Hussien has no interest in whether or not Americans can speak freely and Saddam Hussien has no possibility, whatsoever, of overthrowing the U.S. government. The war may be about a lot of things, but billvon attending a peace rally, in and of itself, is in no way showing any disrespect to anyone that has ever now or ever will be fighting for the U.S. Constitution.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #4 February 17, 2003 Why on earth would you want peace? There is nothing good on TV at the moment, a war would definitely make for good viewing. (of course we'd then have to suffer through all those endless humanitarian documentaries afterwards, about all the people who got themselves killed and maimed, that doesn't make very good viewing...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 February 17, 2003 QuoteAre you suggesting that this war is about freedom of speech? Nope, just commenting to his post.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #6 February 17, 2003 > Aren't you glad that the US service men and women have fought and died for you . . . Yep, and I'm glad many of them were there to present their views as well. Democracy in action. Veterans may not have more than one vote in this society of ours, but to me, their opinions carry a lot of weight. They're the ones who have had to live with the decisions of our government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 February 17, 2003 It's interesting how many other countries there are in the world that don't have US service men and women to protect them, but do have the same (if not more) rights then Americans. What was your point again? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #8 February 17, 2003 I agree with AggieDave... I love this country. I hope for our soldiers sake that they don't feel like their own country men are demonstrating against them. During Vietnam this same thing happened and our soldiers felt SPIT ON. While freedom of speech is important we have over 140,000 of our soldiers putting their very asses on the line right now. I support them. I support them 100%. I hope they don't feel spit on.. I really do.. It would suck to let down ANOTHER generation of soldiers that are fighting for our freedom... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 February 17, 2003 You mean like Germany, France and England, right? Wait, wait, that's right, American Service men DID protect them. Oh, Canada, you must mean our northern neighbors...it was in conjunction with the US military that radar nets and security measures were set in place during the '50s and '60s to protect us all from the Soviet Bear.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #10 February 17, 2003 I just wish the country could come together like that to battle HIV/AIDS and/or world hunger/feeding/sheltering the homeless, etc... We should also remember our brothers and sisters from San Diego that are participating in a different rally numbering close to 20,000; in Kuwait City. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #11 February 17, 2003 QuoteThe extremists were fun to watch yea that's one point I agree with you. How long would you like to give Iraq to comply with the agreement. How many UN resolutions must be passed before action is call for? The lack of action on the UN's part is a insult to the military that not only died but that lives having heath problems from weapon Iraq doesn't have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #12 February 17, 2003 QuoteWe should also remember our brothers and sisters from San Diego that are participating in a different rally numbering close to 20,000; in Kuwait City. well said!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #13 February 17, 2003 >How long would you like to give Iraq to comply with the agreement. Four weeks, plus or minus two. >How many UN resolutions must be passed before action is call for? One more. Pass a resolution that says "do X, Y and Z by this date or you will be invaded." Make it clear both to Iraq and the rest of the members of the UN what will happen if he doesn't comply. If he does nothing, then at least we gave him every possible chance - and France can't claim they want a little more time. And if, by a miracle, Hussein complies? We just saved the lives of 100,000 people - a few of them american. It's a slim chance, but for that many lives, it's a chance worth taking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #14 February 17, 2003 QuoteWait, wait, that's right, American Service men DID protect them. And the Allied pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain were protecting America as well. Montgomery's Eight Army that defeated Rommel was protecting America as well. Russia attacking Germany from the east was protecting America as well. If none of these had happened one could speculate that after conquering Europe and Africa Hitler might have had a go at America as well. Dave a lot of Americans have died defending other countries' freedom, but a lot of non-Americans have also died defending America's freedom. Is America the grudging protector of global freedom or the capitalistic exploiter? I don't know, sometimes I think it is both. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 February 17, 2003 QuoteYou mean like Germany, France and England, right? Or Japan, Thailand, New Zealand, or Australia. The list really is endless. Yes, I'm sure you're about to tell us how US forces are "protecting" Japan, but you don't really believe that, do you? As for Canada, Canadians generally oppose "protection" from the US - take for example their oposition to the Missile Defence Initiative. More often them not, they accept it because Washington ties it to otherwise unrelated items like free trade. Washington really does "force" protection onto Canada, whether its wanted or not. Canadians have always been quite able, and willing to protect themselves. Washingtons "protection" has been arguable. Washingtons idea of "protection" is that any inbound missles should be shot down over Canada, rather then the US. That's hardly "protection", if you ask me. Moreover, in the 60's, Canada wouldn't have even been a target if it were not for its proximity to the US. Most protections Canada has from Norad is by convenience, in that the US wants more then 8 seconds of warning, and that most Canadian populations live close to the US border. But I must say, you did avoid my question quite effectively. Again, I ask - what was your point again? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #16 February 17, 2003 come on Bill, he's had years. If he can't see at least the US isn't joking by the troop build up. Iran had the good sense to release the hostages when they saw what was coming. He's like a used car salesman, you know he's lying when his lips are moving. Maybe we "need" Jesse Jackson to work it all out. I do not want war, I do not believe anyone does but maybe Hussian himself. It's time to liberate Iraq. I believe it'll hit the fan before end of the month. I just hope a hit team will take him out before it's all started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivaSkyChick 0 #17 February 17, 2003 QuoteI just wish the country could come together like that to battle HIV/AIDS and/or world hunger/feeding/sheltering the homeless, etc.. No kidding! Probably cost less, too! And think of the respect such a peaceful endeavor would earn - who can hate a country with such goals? --- www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #18 February 17, 2003 QuoteAnd the Allied pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain were protecting America as well. Montgomery's Eight Army that defeated Rommel was protecting America as well. Russia attacking Germany from the east was protecting America as well, If none of these had happened one could speculate that after conquering Europe and Africa Hitler might have had a go at America as well. Dave a lot of Americans have died defending other countries' freedom, but a lot of non-Americans have also died defending America's freedom.. In hindsight we can see this for what it is, but did the world see it like this then? Or was it just those in the right standing up to the bully for those who couldn't? QuoteIs America the grudging protector of global freedom or the capitalistic exploiter? I don't know, sometimes I think it is both. Maybe not then but now, when (as I have said before) we send our young men and women to places like Bosnia, Rwanda, Somalia, Grenada, Haiti... etc etc, what do these places have to do with my land, my vote my America? Nothing, excpet for the fact that it is the Responsiblity of the Strong to protect the weak. Just for the love of God man, please quit scapegoating the US for UN mistakes I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #19 February 17, 2003 In 2002 3.1 million people died of Aids related illness. That averages out to about 8 500 every day. Not sure what more can be done. More education? Free condoms made freely available in the countries that are hardest hit? Free needles for junkies? More money spent on finding a cure? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #20 February 17, 2003 There is an open bordered and all are free to leave the U.S. That is point and fact._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #21 February 17, 2003 Good for you, Bill. I wish more people would stand up for what they believe in. Maybe it won't have any effect on those who make decision ... but at least, IMHO, you did the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #22 February 17, 2003 QuoteJust for the love of God man, please quit scapegoating the US for UN mistakes Could you give me an example of where I have done this please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DivaSkyChick 0 #23 February 17, 2003 I'm not sure what can be done about lotsa stuff - and Kennedy didn't have a clue how he was gonna get a guy on the moon, but he committed the country to it and we got it done. Anything American's put their soul behind, they can do. It's who we are. --- www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #24 February 17, 2003 QuoteQuoteJust for the love of God man, please quit scapegoating the US for UN mistakes Could you give me an example of where I have done this please. sorry didn't mean you personally, just a figure of speech that I use I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #25 February 17, 2003 QuoteAnything American's put their soul behind, they can do. It's who we are. Amen I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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