Gawain 0 #26 February 25, 2003 QuotePearl Harbor ring a bell. ther we were drinking, chasing women, dancing, golfing taking it easy, We were emerging from the Great Depression, actively trying to isolate ourselves from the war in Europe and had suspended several diplomatic and economic ties with Japan. We were hardly asleep. While I feel we could've done a better job detecting the activities up to 9/11, I do believe that it still wouldn't have been enough. We didn't have the experience to follow the patterns of communication, or the trade craft of the those that would be training, etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #27 February 25, 2003 Just as a matter of clarity...a debate is not a negotiation. Nor is it a peace talk. Neither is it conducive to resolution. A debate is simply a formal argument, wherein 2 sides put their thoughts out, and try to "win" public support for their side. A debate is useless. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #28 February 25, 2003 A full tank of jet fuel....$60,000 A Nuclear Missile..........$2,000,0000 Nukeing Iraq and all the terrorist on Earth PRICELESS!!! What the hell are we waiting for? __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #30 February 25, 2003 QuoteA debate is useless. i dissagree. debates have been around for years. in court trails, they are essentially debates, if they are innefective, then why are they employed to the degree that they are. taking a shot at diplomacy is not useless. i think a debate would be very enlightning.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #31 February 25, 2003 Quoteif your not willing to go over there, then hold your tongue. you understand nothing about the culture, Quotehave you ever been to the middle east? Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, Quatar, Bahrain? if you haven't, your not qualified to speak on the subject in an informed tone Quotei can't believe how gullible you people are. Quoteif you have not been in these countries in the last year, you are not as qualified as i am to comment on it. rgoper has decreed....no one is as qualified to speak on this subject as he. What a tool. Bill.....didn't your mom ever teach you NOT to argue with fools? Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #32 February 25, 2003 The debate as described won't happen. Usually debates are in front of a body (committee or electorate) or persons (Judge or jury). With a final decision that is usually respected by both sides. The debate has been going on for a sustained period of time in front of the UN and world media and from what I see the principals advocating action haven't made a convincing case. I think there is one for upholding the will of the UN but it's been hidden by regime change etc. From what I saw of the presidential debates (remember how difficult they were to set up?) President Bush could find himself out of his depth and possibly emotional (read angry). I think the Whitehouse knows it to. I think Colin Powell would be a better choice as I believe he's a better diplomat. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #33 February 25, 2003 QuoteWhat a tool. name calling will get you nowhere...--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinryan 0 #34 February 25, 2003 >>Nuking Iraq and all the terrorists on earth... What the hell. When did all the terrorists move to Iraq???? I seem to reacall that many of the 9/11 terrorists being educated in the U.S (payed for by Saudi Diplomats So I supose the next argument is we are liberating the Iraqi people. Hmmm, what about other countries under opresive governments? Iran, North Korea, Lybia? Do we invade them next? Do we make it our countries mission to over throw any government not like our own. Okay, so if invading Iraq will not end terrorism, what will it do? Kill BRAVE american service men and women for NOTHING. Kill Iraqi non-combatants. Make this country look like a bully. We really do need to examine what we are doing. We need to question what our government is doing (that after all is the most american thing we can do). This "kick some ass", chest puffing non-sense is not what we need. Real lives are going to be lost and the consiquences or our actions will effect how our country is treated for a long time to come. BASE 853 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #35 February 25, 2003 Dude, never wrestle with a pig in his sty. You get all muddy, and the pig enjoys it. Make him come to your ideas instead. Applicability? Some people will say just about anything to get a rise out of someone. Look at posting histories, and respond to substance. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #36 February 25, 2003 Can't we all just get along?? lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #37 February 25, 2003 Quote Bill.....didn't your mom ever teach you NOT to argue with fools? LOL Glad that's not a hard and fast rule, or no one would talk to me. My main role is one of bad example. In those corporate "team training" classes, the first exercise is to select a set of items from a list to take somewhere. Each person makes a personal list and then discusses the group list. Inevitably, the group list is closer to the ideal. Each person may not be completely right, but they do contribute something. This is especially true when theorizing on possible events. That is why the free exchange of ideas on forums is important, even when our opinions are not binding or will not change events. Of course, if one person is totally knowledgeable, then the rest of us can not post and just listen to their discourse like a college professor and learn. snoooze > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #38 February 25, 2003 Bahrain is such a shit hole, why meet there. now Dubai is cool. cool malls, hotels, convention centers. crazy cab drivers. all Bahrain has is Gold souks Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #39 February 25, 2003 QuoteI think Colin Powell would be a better choice as I believe he's a better diplomat. I really can't pin it down to one attribute or one item, but I really like Powell. He always seems to be driving some event from behind the scenes. Always had a lot of respect for the guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #40 February 25, 2003 >A debate is useless. Yet we continue to have them for some reason. Presidential candidate debates draw millions of viewers, even though they're useless. Some people actually like hearing both sides of an argument, even if no actual result comes from the activity, and few people change their minds as a result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #41 February 25, 2003 Quote now Dubai is cool. cool malls, hotels, convention centers. crazy cab drivers. Dubai - makes me laugh. You all know that your president got his nick name from? He was making a speach on the middle east and came accross Dubai and pronounced it "dubya". Funny as fuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #42 February 25, 2003 Hey!! Don't make fun at JDubwa!! lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #43 February 25, 2003 yeah... he does a good enough job on his own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #44 February 25, 2003 Ok, I don't want to get into a debate here because it will never end, I respect your opinion so here is my rebuttal: QuoteWhat the hell. When did all the terrorists move to Iraq???? I seem to reacall that many of the 9/11 terrorists being educated in the U.S (payed for by Saudi Diplomats )? I also seem to recall Timothy McVey (sp?) being from the United States. Linking Iraq to the war on terror is non-sense for the weak minded. Terrorists are not a bunch of guys wearing towles in a far off land that we can bomb and make them go away. They are people all over the world ready to attack us. BOMBING IRAQ WILL NOT STOP THEM. Nope, not ALL the terrorists are in Iraq, you are right, they are all over BUT bombing Iraq will show the rest of the world WE MEAN BUSINESS IF THEY MESS WITH US QuoteSo I supose the next argument is we are liberating the Iraqi people. Hmmm, what about other countries under opresive governments? Iran, North Korea, Lybia? Do we invade them next? Do we make it our countries mission to over throw any government not like our own. We will only react only if provoked, each country is responsible for themselves, or, if they REQUEST our intervention. QuoteOkay, so if invading Iraq will not end terrorism, what will it do? Kill BRAVE american service men and women for NOTHING. Kill Iraqi non-combatants. Make this country look like a bully. True, it will not end terrorism, but then again, read my response above WE MEAN BUSINESS... And to end this, regarding 'Killing non-combatants' what Iraq does to their own people? and 2 words for you HIROSHIMA & NAGASAKI, that ended the war right? casualties? yes, civilians? yes, but the bottom line THE WAR ENDED. Freedom is not free, last time I checked.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #45 February 25, 2003 >BUT bombing Iraq will show the rest of the world WE MEAN BUSINESS > IF THEY MESS WITH US Worked really well for Israel. No one messes with them now! >We will only react only if provoked, each country is responsible for > themselves, or, if they REQUEST our intervention. When did the Iraqi attack on the US happen, again? Not sure if you saw this in the news, but we now have a policy of preemptive invasion - we will now react before we're provoked, if we think we might be provoked in the future. >and 2 words for you HIROSHIMA & NAGASAKI, that ended the war > right? casualties? yes, civilians? yes, but the bottom line THE WAR > ENDED. Hmm, so use of WMD's against civilians is OK, as long as you think you had a good reason? And here I thought Saddam was a bad guy for using them against civilians . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #46 February 25, 2003 I hear you. I like the way he carries himself. I believe he understands better than most the responsibility of the position he holds. Not only that but he respects the position and the responsibility entrusted to him. I also don't see him as a guy looking for the limelight. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #47 February 25, 2003 QuoteHmm, so use of WMD's against civilians is OK, as long as you think you had a good reason? And here I thought Saddam was a bad guy for using them against civilians . . . Whoa!!!, stop right there buster!!!, I didn't say that, what I meant was IF you have to use the nukes, use them, 'collateral damage' is inevitable, sad but true. How many 'civilians' died in Pearl Harbor? hmmm? QuoteWhen did the Iraqi attack on the US happen, again? That's a grey area, perhaps not military attacked but by other means perhaps, too complex and shady to elaborate.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #48 February 25, 2003 So - when are you going to enlist?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
outofit 0 #49 February 25, 2003 i think the debate idea makes more sense than some of the rhetoric the bush administration has been disseminating. what is it going to hurt. It is better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meathorse 0 #50 February 25, 2003 So I read thru 40 posts and just this one thing catches my eye... Quote Dude, never wrestle with a pig in his sty. You get all muddy, and the pig enjoys it. Hehehe, never heard that one before. I like it. Almost shot coffee out my nose. I think it's the "dude" that makes it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
