"Food for thought" More war philosophy-

[Dumpster 0]

Disclaimer - This does not neccesarily reflect my personal opinion- Just tought I'd share-

"DO NOT FORGET"

I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't
the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why
weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be
overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not
comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many
Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the
dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want
us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers
and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the
motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they
will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the
planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our
country when it was vulnerable and hurting.


I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address
to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is
still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's
motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're
all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't
informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely-nor should
they be expected-to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on
the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and
their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications
equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to
trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those
perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the
silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called, "antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the
right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war
protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors
and Marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose
reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party
conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If
they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would
have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point
of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by
it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:
-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
-experience the loss
-remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did
they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

[quade 4]

Where'd you get this?

Just looking for the original source.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kmcguffee 0]

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Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

This is clearly fake! Everyone knows that Marines can't write!

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and
their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications
equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to
trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

Yep, those darn Democrats! At least Reagan's administration never was so un-American as to sell arms to Saddam Hussein or Iran.

Speed Racer
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[Zenister 0]

its been floating around the net for awhile actually..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jraf 0]

Wait..."Schindlers List"....I thought it was a commedy....

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[billvon 3,120]

>On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed
> themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists
> because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated
> their captors.

The most important change after 9/11 did not come due to anything that Bush, Ashcroft or Cheney passed. It happened less than two hours after the first plane crashed into the WTC, when the passengers of the fourth plane fought back and foiled the terrorists who wanted to continue their campaign of terror. Nothing we have done since - no new organizations, no money for security, no nail-file-confiscating TSA agent, no new search-and-seizure powers - did as much to stop terrorism as Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers. We are a different people now.

>I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists
>and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated
>telecommunications equipment and encryption technology . . .

And I will not forget the billions that Reagan gave to the Mujahideen, money that led to the birth of the Taliban and Al Quaeda. I will not forget that the Stingers that threaten our aircraft even now came from a president who would arm radical Islamic terrorists just because they might kill russians for him.

Nor will I forget the republican congress who fought Clinton's anti-terrorism proposal, not passing it until had been watered down to their liking.

>I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose
>reassurance over reality.

Nor will I be swayed by the chickenhawks who would seek to distract us from our failure to find the man most responsible for 9/11 with a 'war on terror' against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

>I will force myself to:
>-hear the weeping
>-feel the helplessness . . .

And I will remember the hundreds of thousands who have died at the hands of the US the same way. I will never buy into the chickenhawks view that only american suffering counts, that a 13 year old Iraqi girl with her face blown off "doesn't count."

I will remember that sometimes war is neccesary, but I will never forget its horror, no matter how right we think we are.

>I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself,
> "Where did they find the courage?"

And I will remember that Hollywood is not reality, no matter how much some would like to believe that war is about heroism, companionship and a straightforward action involving the deaths of only heroes and villians.

[Shark 0]

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Nor will I forget the republican congress who fought Clinton's anti-terrorism proposal, not passing it until had been watered down to their liking.

Refresh my memory. I tuned out the Clinton regime.

[AndyMan 7]

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We are a different people now.

Do you think that sentiment lasted? As you look around to your friends, your coworkers, your family: do you see people who are "on alert"? Or, did you see people who thought the extent of their patriotic duty was buying duct tape and plastic sheeting?

I also disagree that the changes made by government are innefective. Total Information Awareness - in all its nastiness, WILL give the FBI and the CIA all it needs to find whoever they want.

It's just unfortunate that these types of initiatives completely destroy the values this country is supposed to stand for. Thank god, for us, that TIA seems to be stalled. It would've helped with terrorists, but also would've made this a country not worth living in.

The government changes DO something. It's just that as a side effect, they also just do exactly what the forefathers thought they were running away from.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[misskriss 0]

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And I will remember that Hollywood is not reality,

No....you are right....the reality is much worse....the soldiers don't send themselves to war.....but they go..for you...for me......whether you want them to or not.. Do I want my husband out there dropping bombs on Iraqi children.....No....and we've had many a discussion about it. But all we can do I guess is debate about who is right and who is wrong .. We live in the times we live in......it sucks..

[Shark 0]

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But all we can do I guess is debate about who is right and who is wrong .. We live in the times we live in......it sucks..

Yep. United we stand, divided we fall....

[misskriss 0]

yup

[bodypilot90 0]

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Do I want my husband out there dropping bombs on Iraqi children.....

Fact.... if Iraq would comply your husband would not need to bomb at all.

Fact.. If Iraq didn't put ada and scud's around schools children wouldn't be in harms way.

Fact... If Iraq would come clean right now, no one would get hurt.

who's the bad guy? I know.

[misskriss 0]

I know all of that...every word.. believe me...he has stressed those points..I understand ...doesn't mean I like any of it.. Do I support him.....absolutely.

[bodypilot90 0]

you are a sweet wife,

[misskriss 0]

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you are a sweet wife,

LOL...okay...you know what..I am.. but I'll remind him of that fact anyway..

[jerry81 10]

Thanks for the food. My thoughts feel funny now. I think it might be poisoning.

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We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

But you gotta love this one; in the name of liberty, all alternatives have been removed! Kinda like our former political system- you could vote, but the only choice was the Communist Party .

---

[kallend 2,150]

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Quote

We are a different people now.

Do you think that sentiment lasted? As you look around to your friends, your coworkers, your family: do you see people who are "on alert"? Or, did you see people who thought the extent of their patriotic duty was buying duct tape and plastic sheeting?

I also disagree that the changes made by government are innefective. Total Information Awareness - in all its nastiness, WILL give the FBI and the CIA all it needs to find whoever they want.

It's just unfortunate that these types of initiatives completely destroy the values this country is supposed to stand for. Thank god, for us, that TIA seems to be stalled. It would've helped with terrorists, but also would've made this a country not worth living in.

The government changes DO something. It's just that as a side effect, they also just do exactly what the forefathers thought they were running away from.

_Am

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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Quote

We are a different people now.

Do you think that sentiment lasted? As you look around to your friends, your coworkers, your family: do you see people who are "on alert"? Or, did you see people who thought the extent of their patriotic duty was buying duct tape and plastic sheeting?

I also disagree that the changes made by government are innefective. Total Information Awareness - in all its nastiness, WILL give the FBI and the CIA all it needs to find whoever they want.

It's just unfortunate that these types of initiatives completely destroy the values this country is supposed to stand for. Thank god, for us, that TIA seems to be stalled. It would've helped with terrorists, but also would've made this a country not worth living in.

The government changes DO something. It's just that as a side effect, they also just do exactly what the forefathers thought they were running away from.

_Am

Will it (TIA) help with terrorists? Data mining is an imprecise science, as all datasets have patterns in them, but not all the patterns mean anything.

If there are 1000 terrorists in the country and TIA is 98% accurate, then 20 terrorists will go undetected and about 4 million innocent people will be fingered in error. Can you name any large scale government program that is 98% accurate?

9/11 is being used as an excuse to move towards a "1984" society.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shark 0]

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9/11 is being used as an excuse to move towards a "1984" society.

At least the government is doing something. Better than not doing anything at all. As a result they are being reactive. In other issues they are being proactive, which is what a lot of arguments are about on the forums. What would your solution be?

[billvon 3,120]

>Refresh my memory. I tuned out the Clinton regime.

Clinton Administration Counter Terrorism Initiatives:

(1) Pass the Omnibus Counter-Terrorism Act of 1995
This bill would provide clear Federal criminal jurisdiction for any international terrorist attack that might occur in the United States; provide Federal criminal jurisdiction over terrorists who use the United States as the place from which to plan terrorist attacks overseas; provide a workable mechanism, utilizing United States District Judges appointed by the Chief Justice, to deport expeditiously alien terrorists without risking the disclosure of national security information or techniques; provide a new mechanism for preventing fundraising in the United States that supports international terrorist activities overseas; and would implement an international treaty requiring the insertion of a chemical agent into plastic explosives when manufactured to make them detectable.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/pearly/htmls/bill-terrorism.html

--------------------------------------------------------------

WASHINGTON, D.C.: The chances of an anti-terrorism package getting through Congress by week's end seem to be fading, as some GOP lawmakers maintain a combative stance. Republicans met with Administration officials again Wednesday to discuss the President's anti-terrorism proposals, but already the roadblocks are becoming clear . . .

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/san.diego/news/time.daily/0731.shtml

[Shark 0]

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>Refresh my memory. I tuned out the Clinton regime.

Clinton Administration Counter Terrorism Initiatives:

Looks like some GOP dudes did, too.

[kmcguffee 0]

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Do you think that sentiment lasted? As you look around to your friends, your coworkers, your family: do you see people who are "on alert"? Or, did you see people who thought the extent of their patriotic duty was buying duct tape and plastic sheeting?

I know that it lasted with many Americans. I work with guys who quit high paying jobs and took law enforcement jobs because of 9/11. Not just one or two either. We are getting new ones daily.

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It's just unfortunate that these types of initiatives completely destroy the values this country is supposed to stand for. Thank god, for us, that TIA seems to be stalled. It would've helped with terrorists, but also would've made this a country not worth living in.

Law enforcement is not going to be able to stop terrorist attacks from occurring with the present immigration and privacy laws. Period. Someone needs to decide: are we going to take a terrorist attack on our soil every now and then in order to maintain our privacy, or are we going to sacrifice our privacy to stop the terrorist attacks. Other crimes are already starting to rise because of the focus on terrorism. The process must be made quicker and more efficient for law enforcement or we must accept the inevitability of more attacks.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[kallend 2,150]

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Quote

Do you think that sentiment lasted? As you look around to your friends, your coworkers, your family: do you see people who are "on alert"? Or, did you see people who thought the extent of their patriotic duty was buying duct tape and plastic sheeting?

I know that it lasted with many Americans. I work with guys who quit high paying jobs and took law enforcement jobs because of 9/11. Not just one or two either. We are getting new ones daily.

Quote

It's just unfortunate that these types of initiatives completely destroy the values this country is supposed to stand for. Thank god, for us, that TIA seems to be stalled. It would've helped with terrorists, but also would've made this a country not worth living in.

Law enforcement is not going to be able to stop terrorist attacks from occurring with the present immigration and privacy laws. Period. Someone needs to decide: are we going to take a terrorist attack on our soil every now and then in order to maintain our privacy, or are we going to sacrifice our privacy to stop the terrorist attacks. Other crimes are already starting to rise because of the focus on terrorism. The process must be made quicker and more efficient for law enforcement or we must accept the inevitability of more attacks.

If there are 1000 terrorists in the country and TIA is 98% accurate, then 20 terrorists will go undetected and about 4 million innocent people will be fingered in error. Can you name any large scale government program that is even 98% accurate?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kmcguffee 0]

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If there are 1000 terrorists in the country and TIA is 98% accurate, then 20 terrorists will go undetected and about 4 million innocent people will be fingered in error. Can you name any large scale government program that is even 98% accurate?

Yeah, that makes sense........if we investigate every single person in the US. We don't. We only investigate people who are suspected of being involved in something illegal. BTW, whip out the numbers and show that our justice system is less than 98% accurate on guilty verdicts.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin