Rdutch 0 #1 February 26, 2003 Finally someone out there is thinking right. Big Oil is raping the American public as well as the World with the price gouging that has been going on. Finally there is an investigation. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31006-2003Feb19.html Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 February 26, 2003 This is bunch of hot air. The market price of oil has gone straight up for the past several months. The US does not directly import from specific countries, but from a pool. Of that pool, less than 25% of that is sourced from the middle east. There are three big reasons why oil prices have gone up: 1) War 2) Venezuela is not back to full production yet 3) Enough snowfall, rain and sh*tty cold weather on the east coast and mid-west that has heating demands way up. Once we sh*t or get off the pot with Iraq, there will be a little relief. Once Venezuela is back to full production there will be more. Once the mid-west and east coast thaws from all the snow, sleet, rain, slush, there will be still more relief. We've seen this before in 1999-2000. We saw it in 2001 in the mid-west when refining requirements chagned, choking supply, etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #3 February 26, 2003 >Big Oil is raping the American public as well as the World with the > price gouging that has been going on. Finally there is an > investigation. Big Oil will set their prices to whatever makes them the most money. It's the end result of an economic system called capitalism. If you don't like it, use an alternative to gas. If you can't be bothered, pay whatever they ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #4 February 26, 2003 Quote>Big Oil is raping the American public as well as the World with the > price gouging that has been going on. Finally there is an > investigation. Big Oil will set their prices to whatever makes them the most money. It's the end result of an economic system called capitalism. If you don't like it, use an alternative to gas. If you can't be bothered, pay whatever they ask. Are you seriously agreeing with the sudden, increase in prices? The American consumer, still has a right to not be ripped off. That is why there were laws implemented to prevent price gouging, especially at a National level. Example, after hurricane Andrew people sold generators and water at extremely inflated rates. Cause people would pay it and demand was high. Those people suffered drastic legal repercussions in return. Also your suggestion to use an alternative to gas is very unrealistic. Do you think most people can just go out and buy a hybrid car? Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 February 26, 2003 QuoteThe American consumer, still has a right to not be ripped off. That is why there were laws implemented to prevent price gouging, especially at a National level. Those price laws you refer to for regulated entities that are, in effect, in a monopolizing position (e.g. Phone companies, Cable companies, Power Utilities, etc.). The Airline industry was regulated this way for years and there was little price relief. There is no inherent right to not be ripped off. Market prices drive costs. If there is heavy demand and a finite supply stream, prices go up. If supply readily meets or exceeds demand, prices steady or go down. Look at the housing industry in California. Developers can't build the houses fast enough. Thus, expensive housing. It's not a conspiracy and this "investigation" will yield nothing except cost the taxpayers money.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #6 February 26, 2003 >Are you seriously agreeing with the sudden, increase in prices? I don't agree or disagree; I really don't care much. The high price of solar-PV bothers me more than the high price of gas - should I sue PV manufacturers? >The American consumer, still has a right to not be ripped off. Uh, no he doesn't. You have every right to spend $50,000 on an unsafe SUV with a too-high CG for driving around the streets of LA. You have every right to buy $50 bottles of wine, $4000 watches and $500 polyester suits. If the thing you're buying gets scarce, why, they just raise the price - try buying an acre of land in coastal San Diego. >Also your suggestion to use an alternative to gas is very unrealistic. > Do you think most people can just go out and buy a hybrid car? Yes, I think most people can buy cars. If you choose an SUV over a hybrid, blame yourself for the amount you pay for gas. (And yes, a Honda hybrid is cheaper than a Ford Explorer.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #7 February 26, 2003 *** Those price laws you refer to for regulated entities that are, in effect, in a monopolizing position (e.g. Phone companies, Cable companies, Power Utilities, etc.). Quote You forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. People would go broke, companies would go out of business, but people would have to pay it. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #8 February 26, 2003 Quote and $500 polyester suits. This was a subtle engineer joke, wasn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #9 February 26, 2003 ***Are you seriously agreeing with the sudden, increase in prices? I don't agree or disagree; I really don't care much. The high price of solar-PV bothers me more than the high price of gas - should I sue PV manufacturers? >The American consumer, still has a right to not be ripped off. Uh, no he doesn't. You have every right to spend $50,000 on an unsafe SUV with a too-high CG for driving around the streets of LA. You have every right to buy $50 bottles of wine, $4000 watches and $500 polyester suits. If the thing you're buying gets scarce, why, they just raise the price - try buying an acre of land in coastal San Diego.Quote You are talking about luxury item's. You dont need a $50 bottle of wine or a $4000 watch to get your kid's to school, get you to work or light your house. Also not everyone can afford a SUV there is a lot of people who drive economy cars (like me 4 cyl) to save cost on gas. Im not the only one who think's this way watch the news. Editied to add: From the washington Post quotes "Pump prices have risen along with higher crude oil costs, but some groups believe that fuel prices have risen higher than can be justified, setting off demands for an investigation by Federal Trade Commission. " "Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer of New York on Sunday accused oil companies of gouging consumers at the pump, arguing that gasoline prices have risen faster than crude costs. The lawmaker asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the matter. " "The American Automobile Association said last week that the huge jump in pump prices was not justified and the group also wanted the government to investigate rising gasoline prices. " Something to think about? " Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #10 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. People would go broke, companies would go out of business, but people would have to pay it. Gas companies are not a monopoly and that's exactly why prices aren't $5 per gallon. You have a choice on where, how and what kind of fuel to buy, or not buy. In the majority of the country, you do not have the same level of choice for your electric company, phone service, cable provider, etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #11 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. No, there's more than one gas company. If one started selling gas for $5/gallon, it would go out of business because people would stop buying there. Now if all the gas companies agreed to do that, then that would be price fixing, which is illegal. People also seem to get their panties in a wad everytime gas prices creep up. Do two things for me: 1) Find out how much per gallon you're paying in taxes where you live 2) Ask someone from another country what they are paying per gallon (or rather litre)it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #12 February 26, 2003 here is alink that shows which companies import oil from where. So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the USA that imports it. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/data/import.xls Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #13 February 26, 2003 >You forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. > Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they > could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. And if the price of crude goes up and they all charge $5 a gallon? People would buy more efficient cars, or buy biodiesel (currently $2.50 a gallon) or use natural gas for their vehicles. Soybean farmers and car companies would make lots of money, hire more people, put money into the economy etc and it would all work itself out - without lawsuits, congressional investigations or any more socialism than we have now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #14 February 26, 2003 >You are talking about luxury item's. You dont need a $50 bottle of > wine or a $4000 watch to get your kid's to school, get you to work or >light your house. You also don't need a $50,000 SUV to get your kids to school. Yet people buy them and drive up demand for gas, resulting in higher prices. >Also not everyone can afford a SUV there is a lot of people who drive >economy cars (like me 4 cyl) to save cost on gas. I do too; I get around 50mpg. Gas prices just don't bother me. If gas prices rise other people will get the same sort of car. Demand will drop, prices will drop and the problem will go away. >Im not the only one who think's this way watch the news . . . I do watch the news on occasion, and apparently everyone wants to eat all they want and still lose weight, too. Doesn't mean it's a good (or even practical) idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #15 February 26, 2003 >So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the > USA that imports it. Doesn't work that way. Citgo stations often sell Exxon gas; in many cases they simply have to sell at least 60% (or whatever) Citgo gas to be able to claim they're a Citgo station. in addition, when a company is listed as buying oil from Russia often the oil from Russia comes from Iraq originally. See the Snopes article for more info. If you want to reduce the amount of oil we import from Iraq the most effective way to do it is to use less oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #16 February 26, 2003 Damn... I was hoping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #17 February 26, 2003 The US has some of the cheapest gas, outside of the oil-exporting countries. I don't like the increases in gasoline prices either; I think it's a little cynical when they go up at the slightest hint of future shortages, but don't come down nearly as quickly when the shortages don't materialize. But it is capitalism; the system where whatever you can get away and be profitable with is the right thing to do. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #18 February 26, 2003 Quote No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. Is there an echo in here? I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put their used vegtable oil in it.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #19 February 26, 2003 >Is there an echo in here? Sorry, missed your post. >I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put > their used vegtable oil in it. http://www.homepower.com/files/biodiesel72.pdf I'm tempted to make my next vehicle a diesel truck to try this. You need two tanks - one "startup and cooldown" tank that's either regular diesel or biodiesel (treated vegetable oil) and a "running" tank that's just regular used fryer oil. You start on the regular diesel and heat the fryer oil to at least 70C, then switch over to it - it's got to be very hot to be used directly in a diesel engine. You could buy a diesel RV and drive across the country like this, stopping only at fast food restaraunts to refuel. Of course that would probably mean you have to eat the food there, too, which would be a problem . . . Alternatively you can just collect the used oil and treat it with sodium methoxide (lye and alcohol) but that could be a pain in the butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Viking 0 #20 February 26, 2003 QuoteAnd yes, a Honda hybrid is cheaper than a Ford Explorer. so is a 1988-19991 Honda CRX HF they get about 40mpg and you can pick one up for around $2000 probly less! But no airbags and they are two seaters.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #21 February 26, 2003 I can't help but agree with you... this stupid double stadard. Hey, we in the USA can't complain are prices are low compared to may places. But then again i am in the USA, so I will complain anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1freak 0 #22 February 27, 2003 I REALLY hope you dont believe that..... LMAO.... why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, why is it, that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother.... the oil has been set aside for processing WAY before winter even hits..... This whole "war talk" has given the big oil companys the green light to do what they are doing... ok, i cant blame them.... i mean you have to look at the money.... but dont fool yourself.... It's all a game of book keeping....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #23 February 27, 2003 >why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, Supply and demand. Economics 101. >that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother . . Uh, they both come from crude. >It's all a game of book keeping.... Yep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1freak 0 #24 February 27, 2003 QuoteSupply and demand. Economics 101. Well it's not a guessing game... You dont think that they know how much will be used..... I dont think they are that dumb..... QuoteUh, they both come from crude. Yes they do.... but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is needed..... QuoteYep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Thats my point.... They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... you see pricefixing everywhere but atleast they try to keep it in controll.... Dont blow your load so fast..... that exactly what the oil companys have done....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #25 February 27, 2003 >Well it's not a guessing game... >You dont think that they know how much will be used..... >I dont think they are that dumb..... They certainly have a good guess. It doesn't mean supply and demand don't hold. Champagne suppliers know people buy champagne around new years; prices still go up when demand does. To keep prices the same requires additional supply, and building new refineries to deal with a two-month surge in demand makes little economic sense. Building massive tanks - same thing. Cheaper and easier to run refineries at maximum capacity and let prices fluctuate. You're right, they're not dumb. They're quite smart, which is why they make a lot of money. Which, of course, is the definition of success in the USA. >Yes they do.... >but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is >needed..... So you're saying they have an exact forecast for winter 6 months beforehand? Where do they get this awesome temperature forecast? I bet they could make a lot of money just selling that info to farmers . . . >They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... At which point we can either scream in righteous indignation, sue them, sue the government, write nasty letters to the editors etc or simply use an alternative, which will either force them to reduce prices or drive them out of business. Guess which one I think makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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happythoughts 0 #8 February 26, 2003 Quote and $500 polyester suits. This was a subtle engineer joke, wasn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #9 February 26, 2003 ***Are you seriously agreeing with the sudden, increase in prices? I don't agree or disagree; I really don't care much. The high price of solar-PV bothers me more than the high price of gas - should I sue PV manufacturers? >The American consumer, still has a right to not be ripped off. Uh, no he doesn't. You have every right to spend $50,000 on an unsafe SUV with a too-high CG for driving around the streets of LA. You have every right to buy $50 bottles of wine, $4000 watches and $500 polyester suits. If the thing you're buying gets scarce, why, they just raise the price - try buying an acre of land in coastal San Diego.Quote You are talking about luxury item's. You dont need a $50 bottle of wine or a $4000 watch to get your kid's to school, get you to work or light your house. Also not everyone can afford a SUV there is a lot of people who drive economy cars (like me 4 cyl) to save cost on gas. Im not the only one who think's this way watch the news. Editied to add: From the washington Post quotes "Pump prices have risen along with higher crude oil costs, but some groups believe that fuel prices have risen higher than can be justified, setting off demands for an investigation by Federal Trade Commission. " "Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer of New York on Sunday accused oil companies of gouging consumers at the pump, arguing that gasoline prices have risen faster than crude costs. The lawmaker asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the matter. " "The American Automobile Association said last week that the huge jump in pump prices was not justified and the group also wanted the government to investigate rising gasoline prices. " Something to think about? " Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #10 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. People would go broke, companies would go out of business, but people would have to pay it. Gas companies are not a monopoly and that's exactly why prices aren't $5 per gallon. You have a choice on where, how and what kind of fuel to buy, or not buy. In the majority of the country, you do not have the same level of choice for your electric company, phone service, cable provider, etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #11 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. No, there's more than one gas company. If one started selling gas for $5/gallon, it would go out of business because people would stop buying there. Now if all the gas companies agreed to do that, then that would be price fixing, which is illegal. People also seem to get their panties in a wad everytime gas prices creep up. Do two things for me: 1) Find out how much per gallon you're paying in taxes where you live 2) Ask someone from another country what they are paying per gallon (or rather litre)it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #12 February 26, 2003 here is alink that shows which companies import oil from where. So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the USA that imports it. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/data/import.xls Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #13 February 26, 2003 >You forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. > Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they > could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. And if the price of crude goes up and they all charge $5 a gallon? People would buy more efficient cars, or buy biodiesel (currently $2.50 a gallon) or use natural gas for their vehicles. Soybean farmers and car companies would make lots of money, hire more people, put money into the economy etc and it would all work itself out - without lawsuits, congressional investigations or any more socialism than we have now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #14 February 26, 2003 >You are talking about luxury item's. You dont need a $50 bottle of > wine or a $4000 watch to get your kid's to school, get you to work or >light your house. You also don't need a $50,000 SUV to get your kids to school. Yet people buy them and drive up demand for gas, resulting in higher prices. >Also not everyone can afford a SUV there is a lot of people who drive >economy cars (like me 4 cyl) to save cost on gas. I do too; I get around 50mpg. Gas prices just don't bother me. If gas prices rise other people will get the same sort of car. Demand will drop, prices will drop and the problem will go away. >Im not the only one who think's this way watch the news . . . I do watch the news on occasion, and apparently everyone wants to eat all they want and still lose weight, too. Doesn't mean it's a good (or even practical) idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #15 February 26, 2003 >So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the > USA that imports it. Doesn't work that way. Citgo stations often sell Exxon gas; in many cases they simply have to sell at least 60% (or whatever) Citgo gas to be able to claim they're a Citgo station. in addition, when a company is listed as buying oil from Russia often the oil from Russia comes from Iraq originally. See the Snopes article for more info. If you want to reduce the amount of oil we import from Iraq the most effective way to do it is to use less oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #16 February 26, 2003 Damn... I was hoping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,589 #17 February 26, 2003 The US has some of the cheapest gas, outside of the oil-exporting countries. I don't like the increases in gasoline prices either; I think it's a little cynical when they go up at the slightest hint of future shortages, but don't come down nearly as quickly when the shortages don't materialize. But it is capitalism; the system where whatever you can get away and be profitable with is the right thing to do. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #18 February 26, 2003 Quote No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. Is there an echo in here? I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put their used vegtable oil in it.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #19 February 26, 2003 >Is there an echo in here? Sorry, missed your post. >I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put > their used vegtable oil in it. http://www.homepower.com/files/biodiesel72.pdf I'm tempted to make my next vehicle a diesel truck to try this. You need two tanks - one "startup and cooldown" tank that's either regular diesel or biodiesel (treated vegetable oil) and a "running" tank that's just regular used fryer oil. You start on the regular diesel and heat the fryer oil to at least 70C, then switch over to it - it's got to be very hot to be used directly in a diesel engine. You could buy a diesel RV and drive across the country like this, stopping only at fast food restaraunts to refuel. Of course that would probably mean you have to eat the food there, too, which would be a problem . . . Alternatively you can just collect the used oil and treat it with sodium methoxide (lye and alcohol) but that could be a pain in the butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Viking 0 #20 February 26, 2003 QuoteAnd yes, a Honda hybrid is cheaper than a Ford Explorer. so is a 1988-19991 Honda CRX HF they get about 40mpg and you can pick one up for around $2000 probly less! But no airbags and they are two seaters.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cgross 1 #21 February 26, 2003 I can't help but agree with you... this stupid double stadard. Hey, we in the USA can't complain are prices are low compared to may places. But then again i am in the USA, so I will complain anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1freak 0 #22 February 27, 2003 I REALLY hope you dont believe that..... LMAO.... why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, why is it, that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother.... the oil has been set aside for processing WAY before winter even hits..... This whole "war talk" has given the big oil companys the green light to do what they are doing... ok, i cant blame them.... i mean you have to look at the money.... but dont fool yourself.... It's all a game of book keeping....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #23 February 27, 2003 >why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, Supply and demand. Economics 101. >that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother . . Uh, they both come from crude. >It's all a game of book keeping.... Yep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1freak 0 #24 February 27, 2003 QuoteSupply and demand. Economics 101. Well it's not a guessing game... You dont think that they know how much will be used..... I dont think they are that dumb..... QuoteUh, they both come from crude. Yes they do.... but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is needed..... QuoteYep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Thats my point.... They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... you see pricefixing everywhere but atleast they try to keep it in controll.... Dont blow your load so fast..... that exactly what the oil companys have done....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #25 February 27, 2003 >Well it's not a guessing game... >You dont think that they know how much will be used..... >I dont think they are that dumb..... They certainly have a good guess. It doesn't mean supply and demand don't hold. Champagne suppliers know people buy champagne around new years; prices still go up when demand does. To keep prices the same requires additional supply, and building new refineries to deal with a two-month surge in demand makes little economic sense. Building massive tanks - same thing. Cheaper and easier to run refineries at maximum capacity and let prices fluctuate. You're right, they're not dumb. They're quite smart, which is why they make a lot of money. Which, of course, is the definition of success in the USA. >Yes they do.... >but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is >needed..... So you're saying they have an exact forecast for winter 6 months beforehand? Where do they get this awesome temperature forecast? I bet they could make a lot of money just selling that info to farmers . . . >They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... At which point we can either scream in righteous indignation, sue them, sue the government, write nasty letters to the editors etc or simply use an alternative, which will either force them to reduce prices or drive them out of business. Guess which one I think makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Gawain 0 #10 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. People would go broke, companies would go out of business, but people would have to pay it. Gas companies are not a monopoly and that's exactly why prices aren't $5 per gallon. You have a choice on where, how and what kind of fuel to buy, or not buy. In the majority of the country, you do not have the same level of choice for your electric company, phone service, cable provider, etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #11 February 26, 2003 QuoteYou forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. No, there's more than one gas company. If one started selling gas for $5/gallon, it would go out of business because people would stop buying there. Now if all the gas companies agreed to do that, then that would be price fixing, which is illegal. People also seem to get their panties in a wad everytime gas prices creep up. Do two things for me: 1) Find out how much per gallon you're paying in taxes where you live 2) Ask someone from another country what they are paying per gallon (or rather litre)it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #12 February 26, 2003 here is alink that shows which companies import oil from where. So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the USA that imports it. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/data/import.xls Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #13 February 26, 2003 >You forgot GAS COMPANIES! They are very much a monopoly. > Believe it or not we are very much at the mercy of them, and they > could actually charge $5 a gallon and it would sell. No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. And if the price of crude goes up and they all charge $5 a gallon? People would buy more efficient cars, or buy biodiesel (currently $2.50 a gallon) or use natural gas for their vehicles. Soybean farmers and car companies would make lots of money, hire more people, put money into the economy etc and it would all work itself out - without lawsuits, congressional investigations or any more socialism than we have now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #14 February 26, 2003 >You are talking about luxury item's. You dont need a $50 bottle of > wine or a $4000 watch to get your kid's to school, get you to work or >light your house. You also don't need a $50,000 SUV to get your kids to school. Yet people buy them and drive up demand for gas, resulting in higher prices. >Also not everyone can afford a SUV there is a lot of people who drive >economy cars (like me 4 cyl) to save cost on gas. I do too; I get around 50mpg. Gas prices just don't bother me. If gas prices rise other people will get the same sort of car. Demand will drop, prices will drop and the problem will go away. >Im not the only one who think's this way watch the news . . . I do watch the news on occasion, and apparently everyone wants to eat all they want and still lose weight, too. Doesn't mean it's a good (or even practical) idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #15 February 26, 2003 >So, if you want to boycot a countries oil...boycot the company in the > USA that imports it. Doesn't work that way. Citgo stations often sell Exxon gas; in many cases they simply have to sell at least 60% (or whatever) Citgo gas to be able to claim they're a Citgo station. in addition, when a company is listed as buying oil from Russia often the oil from Russia comes from Iraq originally. See the Snopes article for more info. If you want to reduce the amount of oil we import from Iraq the most effective way to do it is to use less oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #16 February 26, 2003 Damn... I was hoping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #17 February 26, 2003 The US has some of the cheapest gas, outside of the oil-exporting countries. I don't like the increases in gasoline prices either; I think it's a little cynical when they go up at the slightest hint of future shortages, but don't come down nearly as quickly when the shortages don't materialize. But it is capitalism; the system where whatever you can get away and be profitable with is the right thing to do. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #18 February 26, 2003 Quote No they're not. If Exxon charged $5 a gallon, they would go out of business. BP would raise their prices to "only" $2.50, sell more gas, make more money and drive Exxon out of business. Again, how capitalism works. Is there an echo in here? I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put their used vegtable oil in it.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #19 February 26, 2003 >Is there an echo in here? Sorry, missed your post. >I just want one of those cars where I can stop by McDonald's and put > their used vegtable oil in it. http://www.homepower.com/files/biodiesel72.pdf I'm tempted to make my next vehicle a diesel truck to try this. You need two tanks - one "startup and cooldown" tank that's either regular diesel or biodiesel (treated vegetable oil) and a "running" tank that's just regular used fryer oil. You start on the regular diesel and heat the fryer oil to at least 70C, then switch over to it - it's got to be very hot to be used directly in a diesel engine. You could buy a diesel RV and drive across the country like this, stopping only at fast food restaraunts to refuel. Of course that would probably mean you have to eat the food there, too, which would be a problem . . . Alternatively you can just collect the used oil and treat it with sodium methoxide (lye and alcohol) but that could be a pain in the butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #20 February 26, 2003 QuoteAnd yes, a Honda hybrid is cheaper than a Ford Explorer. so is a 1988-19991 Honda CRX HF they get about 40mpg and you can pick one up for around $2000 probly less! But no airbags and they are two seaters.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #21 February 26, 2003 I can't help but agree with you... this stupid double stadard. Hey, we in the USA can't complain are prices are low compared to may places. But then again i am in the USA, so I will complain anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #22 February 27, 2003 I REALLY hope you dont believe that..... LMAO.... why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, why is it, that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother.... the oil has been set aside for processing WAY before winter even hits..... This whole "war talk" has given the big oil companys the green light to do what they are doing... ok, i cant blame them.... i mean you have to look at the money.... but dont fool yourself.... It's all a game of book keeping....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #23 February 27, 2003 >why is it every year when vacation season starts raising of gas prices goes right along with it, Supply and demand. Economics 101. >that they blame it on the bad weather when heating fuel and gasoline have nothing to do with eachother . . Uh, they both come from crude. >It's all a game of book keeping.... Yep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #24 February 27, 2003 QuoteSupply and demand. Economics 101. Well it's not a guessing game... You dont think that they know how much will be used..... I dont think they are that dumb..... QuoteUh, they both come from crude. Yes they do.... but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is needed..... QuoteYep, and as long as we think we can't live without gas, they will have complete control over what we spend on it. Thats my point.... They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... you see pricefixing everywhere but atleast they try to keep it in controll.... Dont blow your load so fast..... that exactly what the oil companys have done....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #25 February 27, 2003 >Well it's not a guessing game... >You dont think that they know how much will be used..... >I dont think they are that dumb..... They certainly have a good guess. It doesn't mean supply and demand don't hold. Champagne suppliers know people buy champagne around new years; prices still go up when demand does. To keep prices the same requires additional supply, and building new refineries to deal with a two-month surge in demand makes little economic sense. Building massive tanks - same thing. Cheaper and easier to run refineries at maximum capacity and let prices fluctuate. You're right, they're not dumb. They're quite smart, which is why they make a lot of money. Which, of course, is the definition of success in the USA. >Yes they do.... >but the crude is earmarked for production WAY before it is >needed..... So you're saying they have an exact forecast for winter 6 months beforehand? Where do they get this awesome temperature forecast? I bet they could make a lot of money just selling that info to farmers . . . >They can and will, untill it becomes to outragious..... At which point we can either scream in righteous indignation, sue them, sue the government, write nasty letters to the editors etc or simply use an alternative, which will either force them to reduce prices or drive them out of business. Guess which one I think makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
