flyingferret 0 #101 February 27, 2003 Well said Bill. I agree with you this time. A newspaper article I read today made just that point. That if the lawsuit is successful it will set Duke Univ. Medical Center back on decades of succesful medical research....who all will that damage?-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #102 February 27, 2003 As much as I disagree with the majority of frivolous lawsuits, there is an intended purpose, to scare companies/people into changing their behavior. In this case a girl died because the hospital did not follow their own standard procedures to check compatability. Apparently the risk of mistake was not enough to make sure they do. But maybe the risk of losing a bunch of money in a lawsuit will convince them and others to make sure they follow their procedures properly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #103 February 27, 2003 >Cause that is all your hearing here,Just because she was here >illegaly she deserved to die! I don't think she deserved to die at all; in fact, doctors went to extraordinary lengths to save her after they made a mistake. She died anyway. Now she's dead; nothing anyone can do can bring her back. Her parents are bound by the same laws anyone else is. If they want to file suit, well, I think that's wrong, but they can try. If they are here illegally, they get arrested and deported. In the future, I hope that hospital can save the lives of thousands of more people, whether they are white, brown, hispanic, asian, legal or illegal immigrants, citizens, even former criminals. They cannot save anyone if they are sued out of existence. Therefore, lawsuits will not help keep a future little girl alive; indeed, they may condemn her to death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #104 February 27, 2003 Bravo, In other words pay for your mistakes!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #105 February 27, 2003 >But maybe the risk of losing a bunch of money in a lawsuit will > convince them and others to make sure they follow their procedures > properly. If you think that risk of a lawsuit will make doctors care more about saving their patient's lives than they otherwise would, you don't understand how hospitals and malpractice insurance works - and you don't know many doctors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #106 February 27, 2003 Freeflz, listen up. We have had this debate going peacefully for 1300 views. Your first post is inflamatory, as were your second and third. You make a point about Native Americans, a very valid one, but alas, pretty outdated. As for the Mexican issue, well Texas declared Independence, just like Mexico did from Spain. Mexico did not like it, we beat them fair and square, and have a little building down in ole' San Antone to show for it. Quote You want to know about outrage! How about working 60hr weeks without over time ,no insurance,no workers comp? And on top of that they take taxs out of that and at the end of the year you can't claim what they took out??? Are you refering to illegal labor? ILLEGAL. You want to work under fair labor laws, you gotta make the government aware you exist. Come on, this is common sense. Quote I'm a very PROUD to be MEXICAN. You are Mexican? I thought you were American. Gee...I see a bit of a seperatist attitude there. Like someone else said, the US is the melting pot, Melt already! FYI, my mother was the first generation on that side of my family to arrive in America and in now way do I consider myself a German-American Quote I don't hear you crying about all these people on welfare,free housing,free medicare,food stamps, teenage girls having babys we all pay for??? Were's your outrage now???? Why should i pay for people who do not want to work?? I am sure they have been raised in other threads, and I agree with part of what you are saying. Why should you pay? Because the law says pay taxes and part of taxes go to welfare. We might not like it, then change the law. Which I would be in favor of. QuoteAs for the family that lost the girl i hope they sue the crap out of the hospital. Boy, that is compassionate QuoteI see you don't care the girl lost here life,your too worried about that she was illegal!! No, we broke it into seperate issues to address. Legality is one of them. Check any newspaper article on this situation and they will mention it. QuoteBeing selfish is a bad thing pal. That is what we have been trying to say about the mother if she chooses to sue. Also, if she does, I think you will see a backlash in public opinion toward illegal immigrants and charity medical work in general. Why would a clinic risk its very existance to bend the rules and help someone who will sue them? QuoteWE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE NO MATTER WHERE YOUR FROM! True. But you dont have an automatic right to do here or on my dollar! My taxes go to American citizens or should. And if you want some of the bread basket, join the citizenship. I read in the paper today that this family illegally entered the country 3 years ago specifically to get medical care. Dont you think in 3 years they could have become citizens? If that they had, this might have been a hero story about overcoming adversity to join the "Land of the free" And your other post QuoteWould you feel bad for the 100 families who lose their little girls because the hospital is sued out of existence? Or is it really all about money and not about lives saved? Quote No because they are not mexican! Cause that is all your hearing here,Just because she was here illegaly she deserved to die! You just lost all validity to speak on grounds of compassion.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #107 February 27, 2003 So your saying if that was your boy/girl laying in that bed you would say AHh he/she was going to die anyways? oh well! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tb62871 0 #108 February 27, 2003 and this is how the responsible non-minorities aer treated in this country. pretty much go fend for your self while we take care of the criminals and their families. --TB Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #109 February 27, 2003 Dang it, I agree with Billvon twice in one day.PhillyKev, I see your point. but unfortunately, Bill is exactly right. This marketplace is very capitalistic, if there are not enough advantages to surviving the risks, the proposition will not go forward. Malpractice insurance is already way way more than anything you can imagine having on an airplane hauling jumpers. It boils down to dollars. If the hospital cannot stay afloat, or very nearly, the next time there is is a questionable call, you are exactly right, they will think about this, about their mistakes and they wont take the risk. You are right, it will hold them accountable, but not quite how you think. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #110 February 27, 2003 >So your saying if that was your boy/girl laying in that bed you would >say AHh he/she was going to die anyways? oh well! No, I would be devastated. I would also realize that all the money in the world wouldn't bring my child back, a point that seems lost on some people. Children die; it's a sad fact of life. This little girl was going to die without care. Even with the very best of care her survival was not assured. Doctors made a mistake and she died. It's not a case of a healthy little girl killed by an uncaring drunk driver, it's a case of a sick girl who did not survive an operation despite doctor's attempts to save her. Unless, of course, you claim that the doctors were trying to kill her because she was an illegal alien. Is that your claim? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #111 February 27, 2003 The problem is, Kev, that no matter how much you punish people, we're still human and are bound to make mistakes. No matter how vigilant each of us is, it's bound to happen. No matter how much money you take from Duke or any other institution of that caliber....no amount of policy-making will ever keep humans from making mistakes. The public wants doctors who will cure infallibly. I think that most doctors strive for that too, and most spend painstaking hours studying and practicing procedures to perfect what they do because they feel, as they should, responsible for their patients' outcomes. Ya' know what? Sometimes, in the midst of all that's going on, that little oversight happens, and the result is tragic. Personally, studying medicine, that's what frightens me the most....knowing that at some point down the road I'm BOUND to miss something. No matter how much I try to learn EVERYTHING in EVERY text, the day will come when I miss something. It really gets me in the gut when I hear folks ready to take a hospital or doctor to the cleaners when something goes wrong. Many of those same people get pissed when they have to pay their own doctor a copay. For heavens sake, we're willing to spend more money on a manicure than we're willing to spend taking care of our own diabetes or hypertension or whatever. But then we expect to walk away with millions when our doctor, try as she/he may to do the right thing, messes up. Anyway....I digress. The point is, that scaring people into changing behavior isn't gonna change the behavior. It's not a lack of desire or conscientiousness or vigilance. It's a friggin' mistake. Peace~ Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #112 February 27, 2003 No not at all,I'm saying maybe she would of lived IF they would of gave here the correct transplant the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tb62871 0 #113 February 27, 2003 Quote"America, Land Of The Free, Home Of The Brave. Send Me Your Tired, Sick And Hungry" a lot of what's going on, we did to ourselves, i hate it as well, and "so it goes" I beleive this is from a plaque on a statue from our friends the French(coinsidense?). Is there any such law? --TB Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #114 February 27, 2003 QuoteFor heavens sake, we're willing to spend more money on a manicure than we're willing to spend taking care of our own diabetes or hypertension or whatever. Exactly, as a society we are spend money on foolish obsessions, and then expect someone to hands us wads of it when we make a choice that proves bad. If we had always done this, the puritans would have bought a paddleboat instead of the Mayflower and then sued the manufacturer when they ended up in Ireland.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #115 February 27, 2003 >No not at all,I'm saying maybe she would of lived IF they would of > gave here the correct transplant the first time. Of course. She also would have lived if she had not had the condition that required the surgery in the first place, or if she had stayed in mexico and gotten the surgery. She didn't. You can play "what if?" forever - nothing will change the fact that she died. No lawsuit will bring her back, no money will make the parents feel better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,593 #116 February 27, 2003 QuoteI'm saying maybe she would of lived IF they would of gave here the correct transplant the first time She might have, and she might not have. I don't think that the hospital, for one second, considered where she was from or anything else in making this mistake, or that it led them to take less care. For self-interested reasons if nothing else -- look at the publicity they're getting, virtually none of it positive. If they had Osama Bin Laden there, they'd give him the appropriate procedures. They might not agree to take him in the first place, but they wouldn't be careless if he were treated there. It's their professional reputation at stake, and that's worth a lot. There are a couple of places where this mistake could have been caught. I have no idea what the processes are, but the operating doctor is taking the responsibility, even though he's probably the last in the chain of possible places to catch this mistake. It should have been picked up before. But it wasn't this time. After all, if they ship organs to someone who isn't compatible, then they're probably still wasted due to time and deterioration, even if they don't get transplanted in. If it were my son, I'd take him, legally or illegally, to wherever I thought he could get the best treatment. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #117 February 27, 2003 Your right no amount of money will bring her back! But when they lose a lump of cash in the lawsuit they never make that kind of mistake again!That is the lesson there going to learn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #118 February 27, 2003 I would bet you the loss of the life is MUCH more devastating to that doctor than the loss of money in a law suit.....-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #119 February 27, 2003 "If it were my son, I'd take him, legally or illegally, to wherever I thought he could get the best treatment. " There you have it, this is a desparate situation for any parent to find themselves in. Hands up all those who, are debating this issue, are parents?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #120 February 27, 2003 That would be me! I have a 9yr boy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tb62871 0 #121 February 27, 2003 father of 3 american boys who will grow to be treated like they owe the criminals a way of life. i guess. --TB Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #122 February 27, 2003 QuoteIf it were my son, I'd take him, legally or illegally, to wherever I thought he could get the best treatment. I would do the same for my daughters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #123 February 27, 2003 >But when they lose a lump of cash in the lawsuit they never make > that kind of mistake again!That is the lesson there going to learn! Yes, they will learn - not to accept children for transplant operations. Their malpractice insurance will not allow them to. Is that a good outcome in your book? Is vengeange for the family worth the death of ten hispanic children who can't get life-saving transplants? Are their lives worth less in your book? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #124 February 27, 2003 Again no! They did't check if the transplant was of the same blood as the girls and the little girl pay the ultimate price her life! So when a transplant goes across there desk again i bet they'll check it before they try to tranplant it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,121 #125 February 27, 2003 >So when a transplant goes across there desk again i bet they'll check >it before they try to tranplant it! No, they just won't do it. If they don't do anything, then she still dies, but at least they don't get sued if they try to save her. Malpractice insurance companies do whatever they have to do to make money; either the price of future operations will go sky-high to pay this family, or the hospital simply won't do the transplant. And if that's the future you want, sue away. Do you apply the same logic to DZ's? If someone makes a mistake (say, tells you the winds are 10kts when they're really 15) and you hurt yourself, will you sue them so they'll "check it again next time?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
