cgross 1 #1 February 26, 2003 PLEASE READ THIS ALL BEFORE PASSING JUDGEMENT> I am just slightly outraged!!!! Imagine this for a minute. Without my knowledge, a mother and her daughter have been illegally living in my basement for the past couple of years. Everyday when I went to work, they would sneak upstairs and steal my food and my money. Well, one day I started locking up my food. Several weeks went by, and the family “illegally” in my basement began to starve. One day I came home, and much to my surprise I found the mother in my kitchen holding her dying daughter. She said to me, I have been living downstairs and eating your food, but as of late I have not been able to feed her. If she does not eat she will die. Now I am faced with a decision. I can Call the cops and have her sited for trespassing and kick them out, or I can choose to help and ignore the violation. I choose to help!!! I run to the cabinet and get some peanut butter. She eats and dies on the spot. It turns out she was allergic to PB. Now, the mother turns around and sues me for having poisoned her daughter. Is this “MORALLY RIGHT”? Not legally right, but morally right? The same type of situation is happening right now. A Mexican girl and her MOM were in this country illegally, she needed a heart and lung transplant, and the Doc’s did it at the taxpayer expense. We all know the story… they botched it up, and they put the wrong blood type organ in. The doctors then did a second transplant with the right ones, but the girl died anyway. I am not going to argue that there was negligence on the part of the Docs. This is indisputable, but here is the kicker. These people were here paying NO taxes and living illegally. They went to Duke Univ to get a double transplant for the sick daughter. She would have died with out it, they tried, they failed, and now this freeloader is going to sue and get more of our tax dollars for the trial!!!!! Not to mention get rich after she paid NOTHING for the 2 surgeries. At the same time this was happening a girl by the name of Lauren Averitt was also at Duke Univ medical center waiting a double Lung transplant. She has CF and is dying. Duke said they would give her the operation if she could come up with $50,000 to pay for it. Why should this young citizen of this country have to pay when other foreigners do not????? One of those transplants given to the Mexican girl matched Laurens type. The mother of the Mexican girl was asked when she died if she would donate her daughters organs. This after she received 2 (that’s two) transplants from other people. The mother said NO, you are a bunch of murderers you will get nothing. This in my opinion is an outrage If you want to donate $$$ for the Lauren the girl with CF, go to this site: http://www.skydomains.com/savelauren/savelauren_home.htm This girl atleast deserves our tax money too! Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 February 26, 2003 Quote PLEASE READ THIS ALL BEFORE PASSING JUDGEMENT> I am just slightly outraged!!!! I am deeply disturbed by this also. Social services should not be made available in this fashion. The answers to this issue require difficult action.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #3 February 26, 2003 It's good to see someone else out there agrees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slim 0 #4 February 26, 2003 I also agree. why should I pay for this? it's crap, right there next to welfare for crack addicts squirtin out 8 babies, and using that money to live next to me and sending her kids into my yard to pay and get hurt so she can sue me!!!! I hate my neighbors <<<>>> A good friend will bail you outta jail... A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "That was fucking awesome!!!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #5 February 26, 2003 QuoteThe mother said NO, you are a bunch of murderers you will get nothing. That's now How I read it in the report...her organs were too deteriorated from life support to be donated... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #6 February 26, 2003 Chalk me up. The doctors made a mistake and that's inexcusable, yes. But behaving like a pig towards someone who is dying is probably more inexcusable. The doctors made a mistake, she understands what she's doing. You know sh*t went sour when your primary motivation is revenge. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #7 February 26, 2003 True, her kidneys and liver... but there a lot more to take. What Liberal paper or news agency did you get that from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #8 February 26, 2003 I would like to know the source of your information - given the fact that I have found several articles stating the mother wanted to donate her daughter's organs but the doctors told her they were damaged due to all the medications they had her on........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #9 February 26, 2003 Although I am also disturbed by this, income, legality, social standing, ect have nothing to do with the value of a human life. Got that? Nothing! It matters not where these people came from. The girl needed a transplant, was on the list, and the doctors/hospital fucked it up, BIG TIME! Now, since the rumor is that the person was here illegally, does that make it ok for the doctors/hospital to fuck up? NO! I don't care if it was Donald Trump's kid or a starving child from Kenya, it was still a life, one that was taken by the mistakes of the doctors/hospital. fully respect and support the mother's decision to sue, and to with hold her daughters organs. Why should she donate them? Those doctors killed her daughter. to turn around and give the good organs would be like selling her daughter's life to save another. not only is that wrong, it's illegal.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #10 February 26, 2003 HI, Cgross... I am not passing judgment...and I haven't gotten all the info to make a good, informed post about this. That being said, there was an issue with the 2nd heart/lung being re-donated. I am not sure what it was, but it had to do with the amount of medication in her system which made the situation untenable (I think that was it, IIRC). There is also a system in place to work within regarding inability to pay and transplants or other needed surgery. There is a percentage of donated organs which are "set aside" (you can't really do that, but you get my point) which go to those who cannot pay, are here for the surgery, etc. Keep in mind that there are many amazing surgeries which take place - the conjoined twins here in LA comes to mind - that are undertaken with patients from other countries who are here simply for the surgery (the twins were here from Guatamala). Now, the difference was that they were here legally, and the surgery went fine. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #11 February 26, 2003 Here we go... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #12 February 26, 2003 Rev, i don't know you, and I respect your beliefs, but for a minute just stop and think with your mind, not your emotions. I do not deny the Docs screwed up, and I know there intention was not to make a mistake. But, they are human. My argument about her citizenship is this: There are taxpaying people who are also dying in this country, and in this hospital that should have been higher on the list. So what now... America can take all the worlds dying people and cure them free of charge? You know what... I want the Mom to win her suit. Then I want to deduct from that all the expenses from her operations, and then what ever is left over donated to medical research. That way this is not just another vengefull lawsuit. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #13 February 26, 2003 I agree, but consider this. Assuming everything in cgross' writeup is true, why did the mother of the foreign girl vehemently refuse to donate and called the others murderers? Isn't that worse than the doctors making a mistake? If you call her decision not to donate her daughters' organs "human", the mistake of the doctors is also "human". Both "human" decisions/mistakes can cost a life. So where does that leave the foreign mother? In the cesspit with the doctors, to me. Again, the above is assuming what cgross wrote up is completely true. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #14 February 26, 2003 Mich... I know what you are talking about. 5% of donated organs... that is the the #. My medical info, and the transplant % data came from Reuters, just to set the record straight. I understand your side and view, I do , but so many liberals out there make this argument. Before we police the world, let's fix everything at home first. That being said, before we cure the world, let's fix our own first. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #15 February 26, 2003 Ok try this one - let's say I am in the hospital on life support and don't have a living will - my parents pull the plug - the doctors ask my parents to donate my organs and they say no......what is the difference...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #16 February 26, 2003 There really is nothing more that I can add here. I stand by my statement. The system of haves/have nots in America is about as bad as you can get. Here we are, sitting in arguably the most powerful nation in the world, getting mad about a "vengeful" lawsuit. Here's your wakeup call: If vengeance was removed from the human brain, there would be no more lawsuits. All lawsuits are based on revenge, from murder to shoplifting to disorderly conduct.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #17 February 26, 2003 From what I read, the only organs that were likely to be usable were the corneas. She didn't agree to donate them; there's some disagreement as to whether or not someone communicated with her exactly what that meant. But that could definitely be covering. I'm sure she was upset, and angry, and not thinking clearly. With the massive amount of medication in her, and the earlier rejection, there's no way soft-tissue organs, and probably skin, would be usable. Someone in the US helped to sponsor her expenses with fundraisers etc. People will disagree all over the place whether any foreigner, illegal or not, deserves to be treated before any American citizen. And, the closer they get to a situation, the more they'll disagree with whether their friend should be bypassed for someone else. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #18 February 26, 2003 Hey guys let's step back for a moment before placing blame here. It may be that the Organ Bank who type matches all donors and patients made the mistake not Duke University or the operating MDs. When organs are delivered to a hospital they are designated by the Organ Bank for a specific patient. The local MDs must prep them and start the surgery very quickly while the organs are viable. And what about you. If your child needed surgery that was only available in a foreign country that you could not legally enter, would you go there anyway? Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #19 February 26, 2003 They did not call the doctors and the dying girl murderers and started a lawsuit. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #20 February 26, 2003 you are wrong... one can sue for loss of property Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #21 February 26, 2003 I have to agree here... It is a shame that this person died....But in truth she was going to die anyway.. The medical team screwed the pooch big time. But, I think that the mother has no right to sue. I say kick her out of the country. It really pisses me off when people who are here illegally try to use the law.... It also pisses me off when people live in the US for several years with out ever even trying to become a citizen. And then these people bitch about the US....If ya don't like it...pack up and move out. I am also a big fan of kicking every illegal person in the country out. You want to live here? Great, follow the rules...not willing to follow the rules? Get out. I am a human being just like the rest of the world....But If I were in any other country and needed an operation like this....What are the chances I would get it? The fact that the people tried to save this persons life is enough for me.....The fact that they screwed up needs to be handled, but I don't think the Mother should benefit from it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #22 February 26, 2003 Everything I say is based on the assumption that the writeup of cgross is the truth. If it is not, then just scratch out everything I said about the mother. There is NO REASON why an American is more deserving of a treatment than a non-American. This goes for every single country. If I was a doctor and I had to choose between Einstein and someone who achieved nothing and is in my country illegally, I would use a coin. I may hope it will come up Einstein, but I will follow what the coin says. NO human life is worth more than another, except in extreme cases of the other person being a thief/murderer/rapist, and even then it's a tough choice. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #23 February 26, 2003 And I have yet to find an article that verifys they did......I am still looking.....but it really doesn't matter - donating organs is a choice - it is not mandatory...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #24 February 26, 2003 >What Liberal paper or news agency did you get that from? "According to Mahoney, Jesica's mother asked doctors about donating the girl's new heart and lungs as well as other organs. She was told the heart and lungs could not be reused and the kidneys and liver were ruined from being on life support machines for too long. Other organs and tissues were so saturated with medications and anti-rejection drugs that they also would not be reusable, Mahoney said." And that's from that most liberal, wacko left wing source there is - Fox News. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #25 February 26, 2003 Please do not apply anything I said to the mother. It would apply to the case of a person who did what was described, but she is not that case. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
