Gawain 0 #26 March 5, 2003 Quote when we know that they have first strike nuke capability. We don't know that. We think he may have a nuke or two, but having one, and having a delivery platform are two different things. We know he doesn't have a delivery platform.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #27 March 5, 2003 QuoteEven a small rat when cornered is extremely dangerous. Only this rat hates to be ignored and wants attention; and money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #28 March 5, 2003 QuoteWhat JFK did in the Cuban Missle Crisis was to create a blockade so that ships carrying more missle parts as well as supplies for Cuba couldn't get through. I fail to see the similarities. I'll use another analogy. A crazy guy decides to point a gun at one of your family members. You're well armed, but no matter what you do he'll still get at least one shot off and kill at least one member of your family. Do you draw your weapon or do you try to talk to him first? Problem with that is if you wait too long and he just starts shooting and gets more then one person wounded or killed. If the planes that were flown into the World Trade Center had been intercepted and shot down before they hit the WTC people would be crying about the Gov. shooting down innocent civilian aircraft. Their argument would be how do you know they were going to fly it into the WTC or any other building. Maybe they were just going to ask for money and let everyone go. Preemtive strikes are good in concept but not good in politics. Too many people second guessing decisions. your damned if you do and damned if you dont. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 March 5, 2003 Not specifically directed at you, but to get up-to-date on all the published stuff, go to http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/nkorea/.Lots of really cool and groovy special reports about the nukes, the missles and what they can potentially do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #30 March 5, 2003 Honestly, I think this is just a pretty sensible CYA move for when the shit gets bumpy. Waving and smiling across the Pacific is gonna do jackshit. The display of force is as old as the history of military tactics. Word is planes are leaving Carswell in the morning, and I seriously doubt they are going to Guam. We are moving a lot of crap, within a few weeks, I think Iraq will either back down or be squashed.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhammond 0 #31 March 5, 2003 China might throw a party??? ok, sick humor but come on bill that is reaching quite a bit ... China nuke the US hmm at best and I am being very generous China has 100 nukes actually under 50 and the latest are low yield slbm's that they stole the design we have several thousand, tossing nukes is the big boy pissing contest, nobody is going to get into a pissing contest with what we have, the only way any nuke could possible detonate in conus is terrorist action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhammond 0 #32 March 5, 2003 what do you think the odds of survival of a N. Korean sub off our coast at launch depth...... nada zip zilch what are you smokin???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #33 March 5, 2003 Quotewhat do you think the odds of survival of a N. Korean sub off our coast at launch depth...... nada zip zilch I think the odds of survival for the sub are quite high, at least up until the point it gets its missile payload launched. It's a big coast and they don't necessarily have to be close to launch. The range on some of the smaller range nukes is still quite impressive. KrisSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhammond 0 #34 March 5, 2003 you have to ask yourself what are crazy kims intentions... he is scared shitless thinking we are going to take him out after Iraq. so he gets all pissy acting like he wants to go to war and suggesting that a non aggression agreement between us could settle the waters, thus saving his ass. plus as a bonus he is trying to blackmail us for more free oil and food. I think Gw is on the right track ignore the little mofo and slap him down if he trys anything funny... N. Korea is a non subject Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #35 March 5, 2003 Quote ... and what they can potentially do. Those are the magic words that CNN loves to mix with the high-tension rhetoric and alarmist headline they devote to such subjects. Here are the key points which are buried in these reports: The Taepo Dong-2 missile has not been fully tested. DPRK has not tested a nuclear weapon, nor do we know for certain if they have one. Other possible delivery systems for the weapons themselves are also untested. The attachment is a photo of a test of the re-entry vehicles from an MX missile test. This is the result of decades dedication, resources, research, development as to what is required to deliver a strategic weapon. The other photo is from a Minuteman III test. Note that under the agreement of START II, the US is de-MIRV-ing its Minuteman missile force and the MX-Peacekeeper forces are being eliminated. We are keeping our end of the bargain with Russia/former USSR (unlike some countries that we're discussing). What I think you'll find far more informative than CNN is the Federation of American Scientists web-site http://www.fas.org/nuke/index.html There is great depth to the programs of current, "would be" and "could've been" nuclear powers in the world, the systems, doctrines and facilities.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #36 March 5, 2003 Those pic are strangely and scaringly beautiful...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #37 March 5, 2003 I agree completely. The MX test looks like an experiment in geometry.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #38 March 5, 2003 God, I miss isolationism. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #39 March 5, 2003 NK is acting like a petulant child...They have a worthless leader& government...what they want is some kind of involvement with the rest of the world so that they can financially save their country from the big flushing toilet they've made it into. The best policy is to ignore their antics & wait them out.... At least until we've dealt with all the other shit we've got on our plate. Fuck 'em, they're just trying to pretend they're players...kinda like the IcyHot Stuntaz, only shorter! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #40 March 5, 2003 Quotekinda like the IcyHot Stuntaz, only shorter Straight ball'n on Asia's flacid penis...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #41 March 5, 2003 >he is scared shitless thinking we are going to take him out after Iraq. Agreed; all signs point to it. >so he gets all pissy acting like he wants to go to war and suggesting > that a non aggression agreement between us could settle the > waters, thus saving his ass. Yes. And if he doesn't get the agreement, at least he will have nukes and ICBM's to deter us. I can see the logic in his strategy. >I think Gw is on the right track ignore the little mofo and slap him > down if he trys anything funny... N. Korea is a non subject How about diplomacy, the all-but-forgotten technique whereby we make the minimum possible concessions and he gives us what we want? Ignoring him is all well and good, but do you really want a North Korea that has the capability to reach the US with a dozen ICBM's? "Ignoring the little mofo" gets a lot harder in that case, especially if the guy is somewhat nuts (which he is.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #42 March 5, 2003 QuoteChina might throw a party??? ok, sick humor but come on bill that is reaching quite a bit ... China nuke the US hmm at best and I am being very generous China has 100 nukes actually under 50 and the latest are low yield slbm's that they stole the design we have several thousand, tossing nukes is the big boy pissing contest, nobody is going to get into a pissing contest with what we have, the only way any nuke could possible detonate in conus is terrorist action China already stated to North Korea that if they fucked with the US or South Korea that they would launch a full scale invasion against the north.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #43 March 5, 2003 Quote kinda like the IcyHot Stuntaz, only shorter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Straight ball'n on Asia's flacid penis... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #44 March 5, 2003 QuoteThis is a stupid move. It puts excess presure on NK at a time when we know that they have first strike nuke capability. Sure it's MAD, but I don't think Kim cares if he goes up in a mushroom cloud as long as his last act is to push the button on us -- so why provoke him? Yes, let's stand by and appease another dictator. I don't think that's a good idea at all. "Send us more food and money or we will nuke your west coast." Yah, that's a guy we want to just let alone. I completely agree that the move was good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 March 5, 2003 As Deuce correctly pointed out, whatever capabilities Kim has are trivial compared to our capabilities. Kim could easily, assuming he actually has the technology, send a couple of missles our way destroying perhaps a couple of our cities and we could still easily vaporize his entire country even after his first strike. Therefore, there is no need to position bombers at Guam. All that serves is to ratchet up the tension. Ratching up the tension is really the last thing we need to do right now. Not specific to this discussion but useful elsewhere as well, if Bush would simply remove Part 2.11 from Executive Order 12333 put in place by Reagan, then life would be so much simpler. Besides which, EO12333 doesn't seem to really do anything not covered already by international law -- other than tie our hands.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #46 March 5, 2003 Sorry Quade, but I don't want to wait until we have a smoking city before we do something. Waiting until the WTC was smoking before we did something about Al Quada was the wrong thing to do. A couple of tomahawk missiles at buildings we weren't sure had anything to do with them? That was Clinton's answer. What an incredibly bad move. Why? Cause we didn't want to increase tensions. I say it's time we took the kid gloves off. And started showing these jurks that they can't threaten us into providing free aid to them. We were already the largest contributor of humanitarian aid in Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11. What did that get us? THOUSANDS dead and a economy in shambles with little hope of recovery. So why should we wait till NK sends over it's one or two bombs and takes out SF or LA? Why don't we protect the US public BEFORE the attack? I think this is exactly what needs to be done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #47 March 5, 2003 I agree, I think things should be handled differently and that we should not wait too long. However, I suggest a slightly different tactic -- one shot, one kill -- after diplomatic negotiations fail of course. I mean, geeze, we've only really been talking to him about this for a little while and we deploy bombers?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #48 March 5, 2003 I think the world is in a massive downward spiral that will end up leaving the earth nice and radioactive unless massive change sweeps over the planet which it wont because we are expanding at a rate close to that of the average cancer. So lets go jump. After that, I'm buying! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #49 March 5, 2003 Just tossing ideas here so please don't blast me. Could it be that we are positioning our bombers over there so that they are readily accessable for either front? Not just to attack Kim? -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #50 March 5, 2003 The official explaination from the White House and Pentagon is that the bombers were moved to make up for the lack of force created by moving aircraft carrier units to the deal with the Iraqi situation. Quote "As part of our global efforts to address worldwide requirements, we are deploying additional forces to the Western Pacific as U.S. forces are preparing for possible military action elsewhere in the world. These moves are not aggressive in nature. Deploying these additional forces is a prudent measure to bolster our defensive posture and as a deterrent. As the President has said, we are seeking a peaceful, diplomatic resolution of the international community's concerns over North Korea's nuclear weapons program." But I'm thinkin' that certainly can't be the way that North Korea sees it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
