rhino 0 #1 March 7, 2003 http://www.msnbc.com/news/842500.asp?0ql=crp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpergirl 0 #2 March 7, 2003 This really sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lukepinion 0 #3 March 7, 2003 "...even though he asserted the United States doesn’t need “anybody’s permission” to go to war." Thats kind of a cocky thing to say. I guess the fact that so many other countries are against this war doesn't affect Bush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #4 March 7, 2003 We hired him to do a job.. Protect us.. According to him and his intelligence he is doing that. I think the case is clear... He waited longer than I would have. HE was more diplomatic than I would have been. I say he has handled it fairly well.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornholio 0 #5 March 7, 2003 Why Wait ??? I mean we waited for 12 years for that sucker to disarm.... lets go in tomorrow and get this shit over with. Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast! Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool! bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #6 March 7, 2003 Rhino, no offense, but you do come off as trigger-happy (or at least eager at times), so I don't know that you're the best benchmark by which to judge the man's patience. Not to say you were shooting for objectivity there, but still. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #7 March 7, 2003 QuoteRhino, no offense, but you do come off as trigger-happy (or at least eager at times), so I don't know that you're the best benchmark by which to judge the man's patience. Not to say you were shooting for objectivity there, but still.Well, my fellow Canadian, I feel exactly the same way Rhino does. I feel GWB has been patient. I agree that Hussein is a cancer on the face of Iraq and the world. I trust GWB to have assessed the risk and threat to the U.S. and the rest of the West appropriately. I don't think GWB is "trigger-happy". I think that when he has made up his mind to do something he will do it. I believe he has the courage of his convictions and his faith and will do what is best for the U.S....and indirectly for the rest of the mostly ungrateful Western World. And, I think that someday we will all be grateful he had the courage to stare down the opposition and do what he thought was right.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #8 March 7, 2003 >We hired him to do a job.. Protect us.. According to him and his >intelligence he is doing that. He didn't do such a good job protecting us from 9/11, and he's doing a really piss poor job in preventing north korea from developing nuclear weapons and ICBM's. He is doing a good job in keeping the pressure on for hunting down Al Quaeda, and if going to war with Iraq would protect us, he would be doing a good job pursuing that. Unfortunately it's not going to protect us from anything. Attacking Iraq is like preventing bank robberies by shooting gun shop owners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #9 March 7, 2003 QuoteAnd, I think that someday we will all be grateful he had the courage to stare down the opposition and do what he thought was right. Well, We'll see soon enough I suppose. P.S. If I were like some of our neighbors, here might be where I'd add: Well Damn, you like it so much, why don't you just move there? (That's my mod of the "support or get out" I've heard around this board in the last while.) But this isn't about drawing lines between countries, or opinions, you have yours I have mine, and the next guy will have his. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #10 March 7, 2003 Bill, irrespective of your personal opinion of GWB, it is totally unfair to claim he "didn't do such a good job protecting us from 9/11"...he had been in office less than 9 months. The warning shot came on Clinton's watch, with the first WTC bombing, remember? And then there was the Embassy bombings, the USS Cole, and so forth...all of which Clinton generally ignored, or at least managed to keep the proverbial door open to the bad guys. Clinton took great steps to dismantle the military, as well, thus also leaving us open...and, Clinton did very little in response to these attacks, with the exception of a missle attack at one point. Laying 9/11 on anyone other than the Al Queda with the support of various nations for training, tolerance and finance is beneath you, Bill...it really is. And I dread - yes, dread - going to war in 10 days...lots of people are going to die, and I hate that...but there is a point where you must take action to protect yourself, and if those in the know - those with the intel (which we, the general public, do not have, nor should we have) make the decisions that now is the right time, then so be it. I will say my prayers, and send out all the vibes for everyone, hoping that this war is short, minimizes the loss of life, and that it has the desired outcome. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charliezulu 0 #11 March 7, 2003 "He didn't do such a good job protecting us from 9/11" Seems to me that if your hero Billary Clinton would have done more than tossed a couple rockets into the middle of the desert without utilizing the IC to establish targeting data, then the current president wouldn't have had the impossible task of guessing where the next terrorist strike would be. Until you actually work the issue, don't try to play the expert. I don't publicly scream about the guy who flips burgers if he doesn't grill it to perfection, I don't try to second guess this country's president when he's doing his job, and if that's your bent, then why in the hell aren't you in public office? CZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #12 March 7, 2003 I have to agree here. I think it's about fucking time we did what we said we would do. Whether it be with UN support or not. The UN has no balls! GWB has done more then bend over backwards for the UN and let them do it their way.. Well their way isn't working.. It's time to do it our way. We WILL Disarm Iraq and I'm possitive this isn't what Saddam thought was going to happen.. I would love to be a fly on the wall in Saddams chambers when he hears the first of 3000+ bombs dropped in his country within the first 48hrs of the US operation to disarm his ass.. Amen! Let the fireworks begin! "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #13 March 7, 2003 QuoteWell, my fellow Canadian, I feel exactly the same way Rhino does. I feel GWB has been patient. I agree that Hussein is a cancer on the face of Iraq and the world. I trust GWB to have assessed the risk and threat to the U.S. and the rest of the West appropriately. I don't think GWB is "trigger-happy". I think that when he has made up his mind to do something he will do it. I believe he has the courage of his convictions and his faith and will do what is best for the U.S....and indirectly for the rest of the mostly ungrateful Western World. I agree... QuoteHe didn't do such a good job protecting us from 9/11, and he's doing a really piss poor job in preventing north korea from developing nuclear weapons and ICBM's. He is doing a good job in keeping the pressure on for hunting down Al Quaeda, and if going to war with Iraq would protect us, he would be doing a good job pursuing that. Unfortunately it's not going to protect us from anything. Attacking Iraq is like preventing bank robberies by shooting gun shop owners. He didn't set in place the failing infrastructure that led to that failure in intelligance.. To blame GWB would be wholeheartedly ignorant and insane??!! He is doing something about it. What I do see is a president that sticks to his guns when everyone else forgets and goes soft. What I do see is a president that for the first time is setting in motion by his actions a system that will prevent future 911's. What I do see is a president that is looking into threats of the future and actiing proactively for our children and grandchildren's sake. I TOTALLY agree with what he is doing. Makes me wish I was back in the Marines right now. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #14 March 7, 2003 Michelle, Slappie. Charlie!! I agree!! Damn you are motivating!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #15 March 7, 2003 No, we don't need anyones blessing to go to war. Anything or anyone that was involved in murdering 3,000 people on Sept 11, 01 are fair game in my opinion. Of course, it would be nice to have some concrete evidence that Iraq was involved, but not necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #16 March 7, 2003 Very well said. The peace protesters asked to give peace a chance, I think that GWB has done exactly that, and still is. But sooner or later you have to set a deadline, 1441 has been in effect for years, Saddam knew it and willfully bent/broke. Furthermore, I agree that there is intel that many of us are not aware of, not should we be. Look at the handling of the latest captures. The US is trying desperately to keep things like that under wraps so that any intel gained is not ineffective in 12 hours. The media and the general public has proven that they cannot intelligently handle secure intel. I have not problem with that. I think the day we all started meddling in every governmental action started a policy domino effect. I trust GWB and think he has handled this situation with impeccable patience. I am more sure of my vote now than ever.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #17 March 7, 2003 >all of which Clinton generally ignored . . . Clinton tried to pass the omnibus anti-terrorism bill of 1995; it was blocked and watered down by congress. He may not have done enough, but he certainly did not ignore the problem. If anyting it was our representatives in congress who ignored the problem. >Laying 9/11 on anyone other than the Al Queda with the support of > various nations for training, tolerance and finance is beneath you, > Bill...it really is. And I would have thought that laying 9/11 even partially on Iraq was beneath you, but apparently you continue to do it. I don't blame Bush at all for 9/11, I simply said he did not do such a good job preventing it. Sometimes stuff gets by you, and it often takes a combination of luck and skill to be able to stop something like 9/11. At the same time, I would not use 9/11 as an example of what a good job he has done protecting us. >but there is a point where you must take action to protect yourself . . . Of course, and if Iraq presented a significant and immediate threat to the US, I would be all for war. It doesn't present that threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 March 7, 2003 The public and International community is on a need to know basis.. At this time they do not need to know.. If our intel gets out our soldiers take it in the ass... GWB's public opinion polls are about to rise.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #19 March 7, 2003 >Seems to me that if your hero Billary Clinton would have done more > than tossed a couple rockets into the middle of the desert without > utilizing the IC to establish targeting data, then the current > president wouldn't have had the impossible task of guessing where > the next terrorist strike would be. He tried to pass the omnibus anti-terrorism act of 1995; it was blocked and watered down by congress. >I don't try to second guess this country's president when he's doing > his job . . . So you do not question Clinton's actions while in office? You would never suggest that he did anything illegal, or that you know better what is permissible behavior in the oval office or while under oath? Hmm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 March 7, 2003 QuoteHe tried to pass the omnibus anti-terrorism act of 1995; it was blocked and watered down by congress. Then blame it on congress.. Either way it isn't GWB's fault.. Clinton could and in hind site should have done more. How was he to know... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #21 March 7, 2003 Quote The peace protesters asked to give peace a chance, I think that GWB has done exactly that, and still is. But sooner or later you have to set a deadline Well, considering the inspectors have stated that they need a few months in order to be sure Iraq has complied, the deadline is a load of BS. If we're going to war, we're going to war. Fine, but don't hand me some crap that GWB tried to give them a chance. Even if there are absolutely zero WMDs in Iraq at this moment, there's no way that could be proven to the inspector's satisfaction in 10 days. The deadline is meaningless and purely an attempt to look like we're compromising with the will of the majority of the rest of the world. QuoteFurthermore, I agree that there is intel that many of us are not aware of, not should we be. In Blix's report to the UN he stated that the intel that we gave to the inspectors about where to find violations didn't yield any results. Maybe the UN inspectors should be given the information that we supposedly have so they could do their job. More likely though we don't have any reliable intel to turn over (or use to make a case for war). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #22 March 7, 2003 >Either way it isn't GWB's fault.. Clinton could and in hind site should > have done more. How was he to know... Agreed. Both Clinton AND Bush should have done more; hindsight is always 20/20. But had Clinton attacked Iraq five years ago, it would not have changed any of the people who planned 9/11 - he would have been attacking the wrong country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #23 March 7, 2003 In the first 9 months, I do not think GWB could have done anything to stop the snowball effect that caused 9/11. However, I do think he could show his character in the aftermath, and he reacted WONDERFULLY in my opinion and showed class the entire way through. A public figurehead in a situation like that can cause stability or panic. He showed more class than most politicians I have ever seen. Especially considering everyone in the media poking with a stick for the last nine months about being ready for the job, public speaking, and cowboy boots. Bill, you cast your vote, we cast ours, and right now, I am very pleased with the outcome. In my personal opinion, and this not in anyway an attack but simply political rhetoric, it is opinions like yours regarding Clinton and his effort's that allowed the inaccountability that on a deeper level allowed 9/11. People must be held accountable. Clinton illustrated countless times that he would not/could not/did not apply accountability to himself or others domestic and foreign. That is a huge factor in why we are here right now.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charliezulu 0 #24 March 7, 2003 Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my post had to do with the figurehead actually performing the duties of the post. You are completely correct - and just as soon as you notice the current president shoving cuban cigars into an intern's holiest of holies, you let me know, and I'll critique such behavior. In the meantime, as far as his job performance goes - I've got no complaints. CZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #25 March 7, 2003 Judge the bull by the speed he is running at you, not his lack of horns. Iraq has been a neighborhood bully about compliance. If they had complied all long, they could prove it in a matter of days. I seriously doubt that if we had never found them to be deceitful, would be at this standdown. They have had a decade plus. They got handed their teeth last time, the burden of proof is on them. Instead of being upstanding, it has been a constant duck and cover, bob and weave. They do not even have an attitude of compliance.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
