Do you remember 9/11/01

[freeflir29 0]

Yeah...I remember....it's the reason I have been going to class every day for the last many weeks. It's also the reason I don't complain hysterically when they tell me I will have to move all my stuff from Atlanta to Cleveland in a "minimum" amount of time. It's also the reason I didn't raise HOLY HELL with the lady from HR when she offered me a base salary in the mid to upper $30K's. I took the job anyway......and I'm glad to be here. Glad to be "Back in the fray." Next time a terrorist steps on US soil and thinks about doing something stupid......he better remember me. I'll be there....just me and my Sig....waiting....

[billvon 3,095]

>I think we will be playing the same games with NK that we did with the
> USSR before its colapes.

Good! We avoided a world war with another nuclear power, and their collapse was due to their own inept handling of the economy. If that's a game we played it very well; we should play more of those games.

>With Iraq, I don't think they have Nukes, but imagine for a minutes if
>they did and we knew it. Do you think we would invade then? I don't,
>because SH is stupid enough to detonate one in his own country.

So getting a nuclear weapon is just about the only way to avoid US pre-emptive attacks? That may be true, but bodes poorly in terms of nuclear proliferation. Any country that desires to defend themselves MUST have nukes.

> in 9/11. I don't think they made a credible case.

I agree.

>I think Saudi Arabia should be next, because they not only support
>terrorism, they create it.

What does "next" mean? As in they better get a nuclear weapon pretty soon or we're going to invade?

[billvon 3,095]

>We are going into bagdad as a result of the 18 resolutions of
>disarmament that this dictator has snubbed his nose at since the end of
>the gulf war in 91. He has still not complied. This is unfinished business,
> the tempo is sped up as a result of 9-11 thats all.

Very good! Now that I agree with. We must enforce UN resolutions, and I would agree with a final resolution that says "do X Y and Z by this date or we will attack." He will finally have no more excuses.

> How are you going to feel the next time your at or in the next soft
>target(s) of mass destruction maybe with your loved ones?

And how will you feel if the same happens to you as a result of our attacking Iraq? Will the war be worth the deaths of your loved ones?

> You believe it can't happen again to you?

Make no mistake - it WILL happen again. Most people have forgotten that 9/11 was the second attempt to bring down the twin towers; it was simply the first successful one. As we pit ourselves against the arab world (someone right here on this group said Saudi Arabia should be next) we will see an increase in terrorism. Is the Sears Tower worth a war with Iraq? Is the Statue of Liberty worth it? Maybe it is, but decide now - don't wait until it happens then wring your hands saying "How, oh how could this have happened?" We pays our money and we takes our chances.

>I for one am tired of seeing buildings vaporized, its bad for business
>BILL and your civil rights!

I am too. Stopping our funding of radical terrorist groups like the Mujahideen will have far more effect than attacking one Arab country after another.

[Iflyme 0]

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Maybe if you were here, you would understand. I don't blame you for being sheltered from the realities that happened here.

Sheltered? Not sure what you mean by that. My friend's sister had an appointment in one of the towers at 2pm that afternoon ... I produced a television newscast that day that was jammed full of information about what happened that morning. And I have been putting together newcasts eveyday since that containing stories, interviews and information about the changing world we live in. I am VERY informed about what happened there. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Despite the fact that informed people around the world do not believe attacking Iraq will eliminate terrorism, your cowboy president is gonna go ahead and launch a war. The result will be horrific. Millions of displaced people, outbreaks of disease, a gigantic humanitarian crisis. Infrastructure destroyed -- electrical generating facilities disabled, clean water distribution systems damaged ... the medical system that is already poor at best will be further challenged. 23 million people live in Iraq. They are not the enemy. I have no doubts that Saddam Hussein supports terrorists ... but so does your government. Who do you think armed the Taliban, armed Saddam Hussein??? US foreign policyhas created a hell of a mess. I just don't believe that war is the solution to cleaning up your mess.

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I blame your liberal government.

Fortunately, my government has been working very hard to find a solution to this crisis. I sincerely hope the US finds the wisdom to avoid war.

[ramon 0]

That is a good point. and I can think of many far worse urban disasters that can be done very easily with a truck and no explosives.

Also you can grow all sorts of biological items in a beer brewing kit (botulism, and you can get anthrax cultures from dead goats here in texas...sheesh high tech my ass) and mail prussic acid all over the place. None of that has happened. where is the beef...all these orange and yellow terrorist alerts, I watched them constantly because I traveled to the mid east after 9/11...nothing.


Lots of Osama's money was funneled through charity's and through the UAE and Kuwait via various banks.

We fail to come up with anything conclusive about Saddam in that manner yet we have piles on the Saudi Royal family.

I still think calling him a threat is silly and The govt is appealing to our emotions for war support, instead of giving us reasons like...hey we hate him and we're taking his oil.

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[cgross 1]

We do hate him yes, but if you think that is a motivation for war you are crazy. Also, some people in here have claimed I am braiinwashed by the administration. To that I say this whole, "We are only after the oil" cause sounds like liberal brainwashing to me. We are not there for the oil. I will say however in the short time after the war, we will use oil as a repayment for the war. BUT if we really want a new goverment in Iraq, you will see us turn the oil ovewr to them. It is their main source of income, and without it the country would not survive financially. Our administration knows this, and that is their plan.
Chris

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I will say however in the short time after the war, we will use oil as a repayment for the war."

Do some quick sums on how long it will take to recoup your estimate of the cost of the war. Include all the aid offered to various friendly states, and the cut taken by the development contractors. The US gov't will be doing well to get 5-15 dollars per barrel.
Iraq were strugggling to export 1.7 million b/d in 98 at the height of the oil for food programme.
'Short time' doesn't come into it, I'm guessing.

Anybody got the time to do some real numbers on this? I'm an engineer not a bean counter.
I'd be interested to see some estimates.
Gemini? I think you know some of the numbers better than I.

What I do know is that it will take years to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure, possibly tens of years to recover costs, and start showing a profit.

This is long term shit, and I hope somebody has a decent plan post regime change.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhillyKev 0]

Same plan as usual, I'm sure. Let the next administration worry about it.

[staticnewbie 0]

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I will respond. What does he have to do with 9/11?
- Well, directly i don't think he did it. I do believe $$$ from his government has made its way through the pipeline.

Don't forget that the Taliban, and many, many Al Q'aida were trained and funded by the CIA to fight the Soviets.

As for saying that OBL and SH could be in cahoots because they have mutual enemies, that is rubbish - OBL has stated many times that he would like to kill Hussein because he is a secular and not a Muslim leader, so I doubt very much that they have the same interest in destroying 'Western' (hate that word) society.

Just my tuppence in the hat.

Nick

This username sucks, so I'm BBKid now instead. Replies, insults, sexual favours and death threats to be sent there from now on.

[ramon 0]

If you were replying to me I didn't say anything about brainwashing, nor did I read any of the other posts (no time for that BS). Nor did I insult you in any manner (I don't need to).

Fact: plenty of easy terrorist targets
Fact: Royal Saud family supported Bin Laden
Fact: money laundered through Islamic banks in UAE and Kuwait
Fact: We educated and financed Bin Laden also
Fact: It took us months to come up with one sentence about a bin laden cronie meeting someone in Iraq
Fact: the UN resolution says nothing about regime change or America gets to attack
Fact: there have been no terrorist attacks since and people willing to die could easily do damage if they wanted to or were here.


So why should 9/11 be used to convince us to send our kids and our tax dollars during our stunted economy go to war in Iraq.

We already cleaned up the Taliban so reminding us about 9/11 and including verbage to attack Iraq is obviously preying on peoples emotions to convince them that We need to revenge ourselves on Iraq. That is lame and is the refuge of politicians and finger pointers, not responsible citizens, voters and decision makers.


Big Lie tactics...."If you are going to outright lie to a populace...just keep on repeating the lie over and over again as much as possible"...para phrased from Josef Goebels, Nazi propaganda chief

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.