Where do you stand?

[sinker 0]

well, can't argue w/ your what you "personally" think, except that I think you're wrong and we should leave it at that... pity though, since just b/c someone is famous does not ipso facto mean they are egomaniacal noteriety (sp) seekers. Some actually have something worthwhile to say, except of course people like barbara streisand, jane fonda, etc etc etc

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rgoper 0]

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I bet there won't be another plane hijacked on American soil in my lifetime..

the only way you would win the bet is if you die within the next 5 years, but i'll take that bet for any amount you want, cockpit security sucks, i have firsthand knowledge of this matter. we have been "the bully" in the playground for too long now, it's a matter of time before someone gives us a wakeup call and cuts us down to size. too bad we're not smarter than that.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Muenkel 0]

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Oh wait, I forgot that you fly a canopy way too small for your jump numbers...your lifetime won't be long enough

I am assuming a lock is in order.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[jfields 0]

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I am assuming a lock is in order.

I dount it. Nobody was wishing him a short life, just predicting it in a friendly, joking Canopy-Nazish sort of way.

[Slappie 9]

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I bet there won't be another plane hijacked on American soil in my lifetime..

I'll put $500 on that. Oh wait, I forgot that you fly a canopy way too small for your jump numbers...your lifetime won't be long enough

Thanks that was a personal attack now they're going to lock my thread..

I think I fired both cannons today.. I've gotten everyone a little fired up which is good. We need to get our blood going.. The sun is out, the clouds are gone this weekend in South Texas.. (First time in about 2 months) Go jump..

Now on another note.. I know about 25 people in the military that are there because they want to be. They support our President 110% He is after all the Commander and Chief. He has done a very good job in running this country. Shit rolls downhill.. GWB has to climb the hill left by Clinton and the white flag waving perverts that had the top. Let's not point fingers at GWB for everything wrong with our country. He's trying to pick up where the pervert left it. Ever try and come behind someone and fix their mistakes? What happens is you get blamed for stuff you had no control over.

GWB need to pull the trigger. I think he has. Now either stand behind the President and support our country and the people on the lines fighting and dying for us. Or go become a human shield.. HAHA Now that is fucking funny...

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[skybytch 273]

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I am assuming a lock is in order.

Gettin' close.

This is for everyone - granted, this is an emotional issue. But if you can't attack the issue and not the people expressing their opinions... perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard for a few.

[wmw999 2,588]

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Then I look at the passenger rosters....hmmm

What did you see on the passenger rosters? I think the main difference was the training that people have had for years (based on virtually ALL previous hijackings) that the hijackers were using the passengers to get something, and that they lost that something as soon as the passengers died.

It's hard to prepare for something that has never happened. There are a lot of things that have never happened.

This was a different hijacking from most. And the last plane was more aware of what was going on.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sinker 0]

bwhahaha!

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[PhillyKev 0]

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I am assuming a lock is in order.

I dount it. Nobody was wishing him a short life, just predicting it in a friendly, joking Canopy-Nazish sort of way.

For the record, that was a joke, not a personal attack, and a lampoon of the canopy nazis. I wish Rhino all the fun enjoyment and safety he can wring out of his canopy. Wishing him nothing but long swoops and an occasional, gentle splash in the pond for comic relief.

[jfields 0]

Wendy is right. The paradigm changed in a single day. It used to be true that the best way to live through a hijacking was to be peaceful and let the hijacker get from point a to point b, which was often their goal. Either that or money, which they didn't get if they crashed the plane. September 11th changed that, but I don't find fault with the people that didn't fight. They didn't know they were supposed to, until a few on the last plane. It wasn't a lack of courage that caused their inaction, it was an unavoidable lack of knowledge.

[flyingferret 0]

Yes, but there were a lot of people on those planes that were very oriented with the peace to all others and no hurt feelings political correctness. I think many of those passengers would have done nothing no matter what the situation.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[Slappie 9]

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Wendy is right. The paradigm changed in a single day. It used to be true that the best way to live through a hijacking was to be peaceful and let the hijacker get from point a to point b, which was often their goal. Either that or money, which they didn't get if they crashed the plane. September 11th changed that, but I don't find fault with the people that didn't fight. They didn't know they were supposed to, until a few on the last plane. It wasn't a lack of courage that caused their inaction, it was an unavoidable lack of knowledge.

I'm amazed at the fact I have to agree with you Mr. Fields. Very well said.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[wmw999 2,588]

Being peace oriented doesn't mean you're scared, or that you want to die. I'm peace oriented. For one thing, I think it's better than being war oriented. Think about it.

I'd help, at potential loss of my life, in taking down a hijacker if I thought he was going to send the airplane down. I've thought about scenarios.

But if I thought more people were going to get killed by hijackers who just want to go to Cuba (or wherever) by my resisting, then I'd for damn sure stay in my seat.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rgoper 0]

i don't fault the passengers on the planes for the hi-jackings either. but to say they were unaware of what was going on, i do not agree. i fly transatlantic all of the time, and i am very aware of the planes heading at all times. if your flying a 330-340 degree azimuth, and you have a sudden course change and bank hard port and change to a 140-160 degree azimuth plane, your going to know about it, especially in a 737-747-dc10, etc...we all failed on that day, every american in the 50 states, it was our security that let them through, it was our customs that let them in the country, it was our instructors that taught them to fly, shall i continue? this was a major malfunction on all of our parts as americans, and yet we want to blame someone else, well i guess it is better than admitting WE made a HUGE mistake. where was our flight control that day, where was our tracking systems?

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Michele 1]

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Just because you have a sky-high IQ, excellent language skills, and articulate presentation, does not mean that everyone does. Even less does it mean that everyone who possesses these qualities necessarily agrees with you.

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Well said, Tom, I think this goes for a lot of people here, especially the last sentence.

I agree, and would like to add this...

And it doesn't mean someone who deosn't agree with you and holds a differing opinion is wrong. It simply means they have a different opinion.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[jfields 0]

Richard,

I'm not saying they were unaware they were hijacked. They were unaware that the hijackers didn't want to simply redirect the plane or negotiate for something. That is where they didn't have the knowledge they needed.

I do partially fault our lax security. As you said, and our instructors, customs, etc. Part of the reason things were so loose is that tightening them up causes inconvenience that most people aren't willing to suffer through unless they are shown that the alternative can be worse. Sadly, even that isn't enough go convince people to have some patience with how things are going. I'm not fond of flying commercial, but if I do, I'll do my best to let the security people do their jobs.

[Slappie 9]

Isn't it a wonderful country we live in? We have the ability to express our differing opinions in a public place without the fear of death and torture.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[rgoper 0]

Justin:

the biggest point i was trying to make there was we must realize at some point and time that what happened on that fateful day was "OUR" fault as a nation, and we really need to stop blaming our shortcomings on others and get back to the task at hand. if everybody would have been doing their jobs on that day, and even up to the time whoever it was that did the actual hi-jacking of the aircraft came in the country to train on our soil, with our flight instructors (we..US citizens) just maybe we would have stood a better chance of avoiding this whole incident, and the aftermath that undoubtably will follow. yeah, i want to play in the front yard with my 2 1/2 year old grandson, and i want my 23 year old son to come home safe. where does it stop, when? somebody has got to step up and say "okay, that was an atrocity, we failed, but now it's time for some composure" but are we as a nation, as americans big enough to do that? or is simply flexing our military muscles going to redeem us and compensate us in some small way that will make us feel better each day? i say...no. enough have died, it's time to stop the mindless slaughters. what heritage will our children have if we don't ensure them a safe world?

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Where was theif f***ing protest when their old buddy Bill Clinton lobed a bunch of cruise missles at Saddam in October 1998 after Saddam AGAIN thumbed his nose up at us and the UN? No protests then were there... nope.

yes there were, I remember them distinctly. They accused Clinton of "Wagging the Dog". This was a reference to the movie Wag the Dog (which had just come out )in which the prez tries to cover up a sex scandal by creating an imaginary war.

And there are LOTS of war protesters out there who will protest EVERY military action by the USA, regardless if the prez is Democrat or Republican.

Speed Racer
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[SpeedRacer 1]

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Yes, but there were a lot of people on those planes that were very oriented with the peace to all others and no hurt feelings political correctness. I think many of those passengers would have done nothing no matter what the situation.

Well you obviously haven't read up on what happened with that last plane. The fact is that the guys who started the uprising on the last plane heard the news about the other planes. That was the critical difference. There was a lot of time between when the first two planes hit & the last one went down in PA. The guys on the last plane heard the news on their cell phones, laptops. whatever, and only THEN were they able to figure out their fate.

You can Monday-morning-quarterback this all you want, but you were not on the first planes that crashed into the WTC when the passengers had no idea what was going to happen. The people on the last plane had the advantage of better info, not necessarily larger testicles.

Speed Racer
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[12bhi 0]

What I want to know is how a plane could strike the
pentagon in the first place...In my eyes that should
be a friggin impossibility...Shouldnt that airspace be
monitored more than anything?? After all it is the
work place for our central intelligence agency...

[kallend 2,148]

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Iraq has no connections to Al Quaeda.

That is an assumption.. Iraq does have connections to other Al Queda like organizations. That is enough. Iraq has acted in point like an Al Queda like organization.

Rhino

That's like saying "the USA has acted in point like an IRA like organization."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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Bet your ass JWB knows something we don't...

Tic Toc Tic Toc.............

You mean, kind of like Nixon's secret plan for ending the Vietnam war? Trouble was, after his election, it turned out there was no plan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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the mentality that we are the "biggest, baddest sons-of-bitches in the world" is what brought the towers down on 09/11

No it didn't.. A bunch of fuck heads that are dying every day now are to blame.. They flew the damned planes.. We didn't MAKE them do anything. They wanted to piss us off.. They got what they wanted.. Problem for them is they didn't know how fucking bad ass we really are..

Tic Toc..........

Has anyone else noticed that the bad language and name calling comes predominantly from one side in this discussion?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,588]

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Problem for them is they didn't know how fucking bad ass we really are..

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Has anyone else noticed that the bad language and name calling

Actually, I thought that was a reference to the increasing American girth.

(looks behind, checks ass -- got one, not bad, not fucking -- OK, that must not apply to me!)

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)