jfields 0 #26 March 7, 2003 I agree with that Kevin. The truth is always in the middle, but few people are willing to invest the time to find it. The extremes are much easier and have convenience going for them in the absence of truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #27 March 7, 2003 Seriously guys, why bother. Slappie I am with you. Rhino I am with you. GWB, I with you. We are not gonna agree on here. Bill is not gonna back down, neither are any of the others. I expect we will go to war, and I am okay with that. EVERYONE makes political statements, just because someone makes one that disagrees with you, does not make them an idiot QuoteJust because you have a sky-high IQ, excellent language skills, and articulate presentation, does not mean that everyone does. Even less does it mean that everyone who possesses these qualities necessarily agrees with you. Well said, Tom, I think this goes for a lot of people here, especially the last sentence. "Be willing to make decisions. That's the most important quality in a good leader. Don't fall victim to what I call the Ready-Aim-Aim-Aim Syndrome. You must be willing to fire." -- T. Boone Pickens There is a quote somewhere, I cannot find it right now, which states the often times exemplary leaders are not recognized for courageous decisions until they are dead. History will show the merits of Clinton and Bush. I will be happy to be in Bushs' camp.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #28 March 7, 2003 QuoteI could care less what Barbara Streisand or Charlie Daniels have to say. They're both irrelevant. And so are you and I. The only relevant one here now is President Bush. So I agree with Rhino...tic..toc...tic...toc. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #29 March 7, 2003 QuoteJust because you have a sky-high IQ, excellent language skills, and articulate presentation, does not mean that everyone does. Even less does it mean that everyone who possesses these qualities necessarily agrees with you. True. But it does help. And unlike many of the people clamoring for war, Bill at least seems to have been willing to invest time and effort learning about the issues. Other people may do so and come up with different opinions. I'm fine with that. My frustration is with the the flag-waving "me-too's" that don't even bother to attempt to understand the reality we live in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #30 March 7, 2003 Opinion -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #31 March 7, 2003 Quote"Be willing to make decisions. That's the most important quality in a good leader. Don't fall victim to what I call the Ready-Aim-Aim-Aim Syndrome. You must be willing to fire." -- T. Boone Pickens Whatever happened to "measure twice, cut once?" Or is that for pussies (until you screw up, of course, in which case you're a "fucking brain wizard.") Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #32 March 7, 2003 Most Presidents worry about Polls.. GWB is certainly not worried about the polls.. He is doing his job. I'm proud of him.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #33 March 7, 2003 QuoteOpinion That is vague. What are you trying to say? I said that my objection isn't which reasoned belief people come to, but for those who do not even care enough to make an educated decision. If you mean that is my opinion, then you are correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #34 March 7, 2003 We been measuring for 12 years. Don't you think that if they feel it is imperative to act now, there is a reason for that? Maybe something we don't know? Either way, he had 12 years, more than my creditors wait to take action against me.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #35 March 7, 2003 That is exactly what I meant, how do you measure who has research enough?-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #36 March 7, 2003 Bet your ass JWB knows something we don't... Tic Toc Tic Toc............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #37 March 7, 2003 QuoteAnd Saddam isn't up in it w/ Al Quada or any other terrorist organization?? maybe, but not with osama bin ladin. in traditional muslim/arab worlds, no one who was even hoping to one day be friends with someone else would even let the thought cross their minds of calling someone an "infidel" a traditional arab would cut somebody's throat for such an insult, these two guys hate each other with great malice. QuoteWhat about that terrorist operative dude that was wounded in Afghanistan and sought --and received-- shelter in Baghdad?? well, what about him? QuoteI can't believe that someone can say w/ a straight face that Pat Robertson has more in common w/ Al Quada than Saddam. You've hit the crack pipe WAY too much... i'm saying it with a straight face, i've known Pat Robertson for more years than you've been alive. and i can gaurentee you i wouldn't know a piece of crack if it run up and bit me in the ass. QuoteBut whatever y'all think, for right or wrong, it's comin'. Whether we like it or not, it's comin. Rhino is right... tick tock tick tock... your right, it's coming. and i hate to see it. let's just say we do attack without UN consensus, Russia, China, France and Germany (and whatever allies they may have) don't go along with us...WWIII. do some research. better yet get a topigraphical map and see where these countries are globally in relation to ours. i have never seen so many people in a rush to die in my life, it is a sad day. the mentality that we are the "biggest, baddest sons-of-bitches in the world" is what brought the towers down on 09/11 and even caused the tragedy in pearl harbor in 1941, one day someone's going to knock this chip off of our shoulders. be careful what you wish for in regards to a war, it may come sooner than you want it to and stick around for a while.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #38 March 7, 2003 QuoteMy frustration is with the the flag-waving "me-too's" that don't even bother to attempt to understand the reality we live in. I've sat back in frustration and watched.. Listened, read.. Now when I speak my mind and open a discussion I'm a flag waving-me-too? I hate to inform you of this Mr. Fields I am informed. I am not a college graduate so my skills at getting my thoughts across are a little beneath you. But, I have kept up with Saddam and the middle east since "daddy" liberated Kuwait. Saddam has done nothing but flip us the UN and the world the middle finger. Thinking since the US didn't finish the job 12yrs ago there is no way they are going to do it now. He's sits in his plush palaces eating the finest of foods while his people support him with guns in their backs. He thinks he is a god among men.. Well in my "opinion" the jig is up.. Time to pay the piper.. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #39 March 7, 2003 QuoteEither way, he had 12 years, more than my creditors wait to take action against me. True, but your creditors were probably a whole lot effective in reminding you about your debt than the world has been at reminding Iraq about their obligations. So far, Hussein has shown more patience and perseverence than we have. We didn't care enough to keep the pressure on between Gulf War I and the impending Gulf War II. That was our mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #40 March 7, 2003 Quotethe mentality that we are the "biggest, baddest sons-of-bitches in the world" is what brought the towers down on 09/11 No it didn't.. A bunch of fuck heads that are dying every day now are to blame.. They flew the damned planes.. We didn't MAKE them do anything. They wanted to piss us off.. They got what they wanted.. Problem for them is they didn't know how fucking bad ass we really are.. Tic Toc.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #41 March 7, 2003 QuoteMy frustration is with the the flag-waving "me-too's" that don't even bother to attempt to understand the reality we live in.I think that a large part of the frustration we experience in any discussion about impending war (or any other political issue, for that matter) is that almost everyone falls into the "smart people think like I do" trap.There are, obviously, "flag-waving 'me-too's'" at every point of the political spectrum. There are, perhaps less obviously, also thoughtful, educated people standing right beside them at each of those points. We all have a great tendency to think that anyone who is standing somewhere other than by our side must be a mindless flag waver. Worse, we throw such labels at people we ought to know are quite thoughtful, merely because they have the gall to consider the situation for themselves, and come to a conclusion which does not agree with our own.As a wider question: What's wrong with the "me-too's"? We are specialized in almost all the other areas of endeavor in our lives. We cannot all afford the time and energy to carefully analyze every political issue. Hence the profusion of political parties, citizens' groups, and other forms of political organization. If we all want to be chiefs, and sit in our wigwams all day debating policy, there will be no braves to bring home food for our children.Perhaps the truly wise citizens are the ones who have long since realized that this is all a waste of their time, and that they would rather be in the yard, mowing the lawn and playing with their children.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #42 March 7, 2003 QuoteI've sat back in frustration and watched.. Listened, read.. Now when I speak my mind and open a discussion I'm a flag waving-me-too? I hate to inform you of this Mr. Fields I am informed. I wasn't specifically saying that about you, Slappie. But you do know the type of people I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #43 March 7, 2003 I really try not to post to political threads since my posts always seem to turn into rants of my own.... As a former Marine (MOS 0844 Arty) (ohh rah!)..... I think the people of this country are far too eager to visit death and destruction on another country. It is EASY for us, since it will not be in OUR front yard. We will watch it on CNN - again. Granted, it WILL be our people dying, but it is still all happening OVER THERE... I ain't coming out for or against the war... just remember that it will be REAL innocent people dying over there (and we will kill a LOT of innocents, even in the PGM age we live in, it's unavoidable). Think about that before you next scream, "bomb 'em!" I know, we saw actual carnage on our doorstep on Sept. 11. But that is over and done with except for the grief the families and friends still carry... what we are about to do in Iraq will ruin the infrastructure and cause widespread poverty and disease for a long time to come.... think about that the next time you scream, "bomb 'em!" flame on Garth! __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #44 March 7, 2003 Tom, I think we actually agree almost completely. The only difference seems to be a subtlety. There are educated informed people on both sides of the debate, and all points in the middle. There are also the "me-too's" I mentioned. My objection isn't with either side. It honestly isn't even with people that choose not to delve into the morass of world politics. I get irritated (my fault), when the UNinformed and UNeducated decide to not only hop on the bandwagon, but begin bashing the educated folks on the other bandwagon. It is just a personal pet peeve of mine. Generally, I tend toward the last option you mentioned. I play with my baby girl and ignore all of this except for a little while on the Internet every couple days. Life goes on... or it won't... but either way, I plan to enjoy what of it I have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #45 March 7, 2003 Quotethe mentality that we are the "biggest, baddest sons-of-bitches in the world" is what brought the towers down on 09/11 What a completely assanine statement! That is absurd. Even if I did agree with your theory, and I 102% don't, that is like saying the wolves got in the chicken coupe because you did not pet them. I am reminded of Boondock Saints..."They are all bad guys.....maybe that is the connection....they were all bad guys, now they are all DEAD bad guys." Good enough for me.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #46 March 7, 2003 QuoteNo it didn't.. uh, yeah, it did actually. and since we are the biggest, baddest, smartests sons-of-bitches in the world, WHY did WE LET those planes take down OUR buildings? never mind they had already attemted to take them down in 1993 from the basement. by the way, just yesterday there was a poll on here that Quade posted, when i cast my vote for where i was going to be at 20:00 hours 59% of the people here had voted to be drinking beer, and less than 25% were going to be listening to the president's speach.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #47 March 7, 2003 I bet there won't be another plane hijacked on American soil in my lifetime.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #48 March 7, 2003 Tom...we've never met so I'll forgive you for the mistake. But I'm the smartest person in the world so anyone who disagrees with me must of course be wrong. (Ok, Bill might be smarter but we have the same opinion on this issue).[/sarcasm] I wouldn't classify or stereotype someone who has an opinion different than mine as being a sheep. However, I see a lot more name calling and emotionally charged rhetoric coming from the pro-war side of the fence than well thought out and reasoned opinions based on facts. Not saying they don't exist, and I'm not saying I don't understand how an intelligent person could have a differing opinion than me. But it seems there are a lot of political neophytes out there calling for death and destruction without a sound basis for their reasoning. It's a lot more palatable to me for someone to be screaming for peace for no good reason than war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #49 March 7, 2003 Actually I have always wondered, why the passengers let the hijackers take over the planes with box cutters. Then I look at the passenger rosters....hmmm. The guys that took down the plane in PA, have absolute respect/awe/gratitude from me. That same thing should have happened on every plane. I agree with Rhino, I suspect that hijaacking will not happen. If it does, the response will be forceful, complete, and deadly.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #50 March 7, 2003 Quote I bet there won't be another plane hijacked on American soil in my lifetime.. I'll put $500 on that. Oh wait, I forgot that you fly a canopy way too small for your jump numbers...your lifetime won't be long enough Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
