sinker 0 #26 March 12, 2003 If anyone is offended by me laughing at the comment asking if Jraf had parents, due to the sensitive nature of this thread, my sincere apologies. It was indecorum of me to do so. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #27 March 12, 2003 Look jraf, we all know where you stand on this as is your right. We have heard your agruements over and over as you have heard others arguements. The point is lives were lost in a training mission for war. Kristen was simply telling us about it, and that it hit home for her. Those are her feelings on this. I don't think she stated the war was right or wrong or that those people were special. She wanted us to know it had effected her...one of our community. Is there any way possible to simply acknowledge her feelings and not start an arguement about the possibility of impending war? -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #28 March 12, 2003 QuoteIs there any way possible to simply acknowledge her feelings and not start an arguement about the possibility of impending war? For some people, that IS asking too much. I know, it's sad.http://www.brandonandlaura.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #29 March 12, 2003 Stop the presses! I guess war is the only way to serve your country. For me this is the same as if a police chopper went down. I think your behavior is incredibly rude. I was tempting to not even answer. I would prefer to speak peace to those that passed.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #30 March 12, 2003 If you read my initial reply you will notice that I am not referring to any war, just making a point that to me military personnel is neither worse nor better than people of any other profession. As much as it is a tragedy that they have died, their death is no different than that of a high rise construction worker, who falls to his death on the job. And mind you, that particular constuction worker was serving his country too. The sad story is that his was a job related accident and plenty of them happen in our country every day. You will also notice I did not criticize Kristen's feelings, so what's the big deal. Unless you find it inappropriate that I view my oppinions...well though.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #31 March 12, 2003 People that die on the job--yes, tragic and yes, in a sense they too were "serving." ANY death is tragic. People in the military give up much much more for their "profession." Having spent the first 16 years of my life moving from country to country as my dad proudly served in the military, I can personally attest to the fact that more is sacrificed by folks in the military, on the whole. Also, given the nature of their chosen profession, their deaths in the line of duty are all the more tragic and poignant. Hopefully this is something you will some day discover. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #32 March 12, 2003 Sorry, you have your arguments I have mine. Moved from country to country with my parents too. Nothing wrong with that. It was a way of making a living. So is working for the army. You enlist and sign a contract. When I work I have unlimited hours without aditional compensation written in my contract. Is that any less of a "sacrifice"? You don't sacreifice anything if you are in the profession you love. You know the consequences and your signature is your agreement to the terms of the contract. This is the way I see life. If I signed a contract with the army I still would see life that way. I refuse to accept the argument that someone's death is more tragic. Are you trying to imply that military personnel are better citizens?jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #33 March 12, 2003 This was a thread about death and sympathy and you have to go off on how military is nothing special. Just rude man. edited for personal attack. Don't do it when you say you know better! ~skymama-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 March 12, 2003 Why are you arguing? It really is in poor taste. I know you don't care but I'm trying to figure out what your mental defect is that requires you to flame someone for posting about someone's death. Yes, all deaths are tragic, but people are effected emotionally differently by different circumstances. What's your point in giving people a hard time for expressing condolences? It really is pathetic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #35 March 12, 2003 Quote This was a thread about death and sympathy and you have to go off on how military is nothing special. Just rude man. I rest my case. Please appreciate that you are incapable of insulting me, so don't waste your time...Shalom brother edited to remove reply to personal attack~ skymamajraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #36 March 12, 2003 I can hardly respond to this thread anymore. I will share how I feel......nothing more. When servicemen and servicewomen enlist/receive commission, in theory they know what they are getting into......but, in reality they don't. There are things that must be experienced to be understood......and often times they are the things that haunt you for the rest of your life. These folk train for combat and when they do face the elephant, the sounds, smells, fear, faces and wide array of emotions don't leave you.....sleeping is something you dread sometimes. Sacrifices go with the "job", but it doesn't make it easy.....you sacrifice your individualty, sleep, your body, your mind, your family and love ones, your safety....sometimes decent food or food at all, your free time and sometimes your innocence. You change! The time missed from love ones can never be replaced and is extremely painful during deployments and other separations. Stability in living arrangements is something is one's distance past.........always, always moving. America has always looked up to and respected the men and women who serve as symbols of freedom.....the freedom we all enjoy today.......it wasn't free......sometime a while back a dear, dear price was paid for it. Are many of the things the military are involved in today to secure our freedom?....NO..................but that isn't the point in how our military personnel are often looked at. The bond between service members, particulary those involved in combat operations, are much, much stronger than those of family members.....it cannot be explained. My heart becomes heavy anytime I read of members of our military being killed whether they are engaged in combat or in training accidents......it's something that can't be explained. These men will fight to the death for each other.......they're closer than blood brothers. This country isn't perfect, but I'm extremely proud of it and am thankful I was born here......it is a great country. The freedoms we enjoy are second to none. We can be who we want to be.....we have choices......choices that people in other countries do not have. Why? There were men who willing to do whatever it took to pay the cost of freedom for ALL of us today...................and thank God there are men and women who still answer the call of military service. Not everyone can serve.......it's not meant for all to serve.......but for the one's who do, they have my respect and prayers. Sorry for the long post................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #37 March 12, 2003 As I told you before, I really pity you. You stick your nose in sensitive matters and agitate everyone. It's a sickness man, it really is. Are you an American citizen? If you are not, maybe that's the deal... you may just not understand the "culture" that surrounds our beloved servicemen and women. That's the only logical reason I can come up with for your statements. Quote I refuse to accept the argument that someone's death is more tragic. Are you trying to imply that military personnel are better citizens? No, that's not at all what I'm saying. But in our society, the death of a service man or woman while serving their COUNTRY is a very highly honored thing and something to be treated with PROFOUND respect, not mockery, scourn or any other unfitting response. If you don't get it just keep your mouth shut. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #38 March 12, 2003 very well said... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #39 March 12, 2003 Well said. I will reference yet again the line toward the end of Blackhawk Down... You probably know the one. Most people will never understand. Once again peace to our fallen protectors...blue skies!-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #40 March 12, 2003 I fully respect all military personnel...as well as doctors, nurses, police officers, teachers, park rangers, fire fighters and air traffic controllers, bus drivers, car salesmen, accountants and Secret SSService agents...even lawyers...I respect all equaly. jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #41 March 12, 2003 Quote If you read my initial reply you will notice that I am not referring to any war, just making a point that to me military personnel is neither worse nor better than people of any other profession. I'm with ya ... it is sorrowful when ANYONE dies in an accident, particularly on the job ... 2 NYC cops were murdered less than 48 hours ago in an undercover operation. They died trying to protect the citizens of their country ... it all tragic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #42 March 12, 2003 and our sympathies rightly go out to the NYPD folks as well. They have taken tremendous losses in the past couple of years. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #43 March 12, 2003 I have thought about what I said. Kristen if you are by any means, offended, discomforted, or even sad about what I said, please accept my most sincere, honest and deep appologies. By no means did I want to demean your feelings and beliefs. I viewed my oppinion, but did not mean ANY harm or offence towards you. Please accept my appologiesjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #44 March 12, 2003 I appreciate that.....and I do accept your apology. Thank you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #45 March 12, 2003 My thoughts and prayers to the families of the slain officers of the NYPD...........tragic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboyshell 0 #46 March 12, 2003 Sometimes, what you don't know won't hurt you! God Speed to those who periched!! I for one don't like hearing or even reading about it. It's all NEGATIVE! Live your life while you can and enjoy it!Blue Skies!!! FlyBoyShell EarthBound FreeFly Suits Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #47 March 12, 2003 >The fact that they were wearing ugly, unfashionable chap >attire makes them no different from other hunans. The fact that they belong to an organization dedicated to protecting the US _does_ make them a bit different. They sacrifice a lot of material comfort that we have to protect us; that makes them worthy of a little more consideration than your average Joe, at least in my book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #48 March 12, 2003 QuoteThe fact that they belong to an organization dedicated to protecting the US _does_ make them a bit different. Bill, Your explanation and discussion may be an exercise in futility, when it is with someone who shows pretty blatant neo-Nazi sympathies. He has the right to talk all he wants, but we don't have to like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #49 March 12, 2003 Bill I might not agree whith your point of view, but I respect it.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #50 March 12, 2003 >Your explanation and discussion may be an exercise in futility, when >it is with someone who shows pretty blatant neo-Nazi sympathies. Well, he doesn't have to agree with me, and if he disagrees I don't think it makes him a neo-Nazi. He's got his opinion, I've got mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
