riddler 0 #51 March 7, 2003 Right or wrong, legal or illegal, this is going to be bad for the dropzone and boogie. If I were the DZO, I would be raising hell with the police - getting lawyers involved, et al. If word gets out that you go to dropzone X or boogie Y, and the police might detain you and your vehicle all day just because they suspect you might have drugs, no one's gonna go to that DZ or boogie. Why waste your time? I feel bad that the poor guy - doesn't even get to jump while they are waiting.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #52 March 7, 2003 QuoteIf word gets out that you go to dropzone X or boogie Y, and the police might detain you and your vehicle all day just because they suspect you might have drugs, no one's gonna go to that DZ or boogie. then do you have the same sentiments about airport security? should our dropzones not be as safe as our airports? QuoteI feel bad that the poor guy - doesn't even get to jump while they are waiting. if he is a law abiding US citizen, and complying with the laws of our land, then he has nothing to hide and should not have minded the search, the delay came about by him not wanting to let them do their job. i get the 3rd degree everytime i leave, or come back from saudi-arabia, this should have been no problem for this individual, unless that is there was something he didn't want someone to find.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #53 March 7, 2003 Quote sentiments This wasn't a sentiment - it was a statement. Regardless of how you I or anyone else feels, dz attendance will go down if things like this happen. As far as not having anything to hide, you can let whoever you want search you or your property as much as they want. Anyone does that to me, I'm going to make their lives Hell. Period. I got the money, sense of retaliation and I'll make the time to do it. And the funny part is I've got nothin' to hide Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #54 March 7, 2003 Quote***So you want to kill all drug dealers and users? Does that include those who use nicotine, alcohol and caffiene, or just those who use illegal drugs? *** As far as I know, no one has commited a crime in order to obtain nicotine to support their nicotine habit and the same can be said for Caffiene. The use of either of the two doesn't usually lead to the use of harder drugs or other illegal activities. Alcohol kind of falls into that gray area but it is legal and if you use it in excess we all know the outcome, it can lead to crimes being commited, etc, etc ad nasauem. Bottom line is this could be argued to some extent by both sides with very good reasons supporting their belief but in the end it all boils down to it being against the law, period. Having walked through seas of marijuna, coca and poppy fields in different countries around the world and some in the US, I have seen how drugs impact everyone who is involved with them. Some fare pretty good while others fall victim to addiction and death. Your thinking, "hey, I just smoke a few buds to unwind at the end of the day, who am I hurting?" Does anyone remember that SUV gasoline commercial awhile ago? You know the one that goes this is joe,joe buys gas from Bob who gets the oil from Ahkmed..... and in the end it shows that joe is supporting terrorism by buying that gas. The same type of analogy can be used to describe how the whole drug process begins in the fields and ends with you sitting around doing your drugs. Someone, somewhere gets hurt along the way ALWAYS. Now your thinking...."that's why I grow my own" well guess what? It's still illegal and you know it's illegal. So when your door gets kicked in and your hauled off to jail don't be mad at the cops be mad at yourself for doing something you knew was illegal in the first place. What we , as a skydiving community, should be concerned with is how this makes the whole skydiving scene look as a whole. Skydivers are quick to jump all over negative media and press on "unsafe DZs" or sensationalism on the sport to the general public because as we know, for the majority of the public, perception is reality. If they see it on the idiot box or read it in print it has got to be true. We, as a skydiving community, should be just as upset with the negative press that a drug related bust at a DZ generates as any of the afore mentioned negative activities generate. We're all adults, we know the laws and we know what decissions we make. If you want to do drugs thats your perogative, just don't let your drug use be tied to skydiving as a whole, it ruins it for everybody in the end. Personaly, I don't want people associating drug use with skydiving. You shouldn't want, nor should you think it's ok, for a person to stand around at the end of the day at the DZ doing drugs any more than you would think it was OK for a person to play Russian Roulette at the DZ because eventually something bad is going to happen. Besides, think of the money you would save if you didn't spend it on drugs. That money could be used to skydive or to buy that new canopy/rig."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyGuy 0 #55 March 8, 2003 I would just like to add my .02 to this thread. I know of 2 dzs that are located right next door to a police substation and people still come to jump and have fun. Why, because we have nothing to hide.... just a thought, but how many of us would want to participate on a say 16 way if we knew a couple of the people on it were smoking pot earlier that day? In my opinion a dz is not a place to be doing that. I think we should ALL be pissed at the fool who is jepardizing or dz/boogie/sport by doing such a stupid thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #56 March 8, 2003 Lou while you have some good points a great deal of the problems you describe exist ONLY because it is illegal. If you legalize it the profit goes to the govt (who can make it cheaper) instead of the drug lords (who give a rats ass about what they sell, it would be widgets if they had the same profit margins they only want the money) as to the individuals that cant handle themselves, think of it as darwin in action. Until their use harms someone else its irrelevant to society, but once it does charge them with the crime they committed, (DUI, robbery, murder etc..) no extenuating circumstances, nothing. People should be required to be responsible for themselves and their actions no matter what their state of mind or intoxication level. Of course the last thing the government really wants is citizens thinking for themselves, they might wake up and realize how much liberty they have already had taken from them. the whole anti-drug campaign is yet another symptom of the "its not my fault i was forced to do it because....." blame shifting game that has become fundemental to our courts. I obey all laws I believe to be just and will defend my right to do so to the death (and the deaths of many others who are only "doing their jobs" if necessary) if they come kicking down my door for something our bloated misguided micromanagement justice system thinks is “wrong”____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #57 March 8, 2003 Like I said, thats your perogative. You KNOW your doing wrong,weather you feel it's wrong or not. That's your choice to make.Don't get upset when the piper comes to collect. My focus is don't do it at the DZ or anywhere that it can be related to skydiving as a whole."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #58 March 8, 2003 but see thats the thing I'm not doing wrong our current system is flawed are you responsible for your actions or not? does it matter what else might have influenced those actions when the question is asked "well did he do it?" Everything else is secondary. unfortunately our culture would rather pass the blame on to a third party (often an inanimate substance) instead of holding the individual accountable for themselves and their actions. anyone who claims personal responsibility should have no issues with drug use of any kind so long as the individuals actions did not threaten others. lots of things will kill you. the responsible mind decides what manner to risk their OWN lives. whatever happened to "pursuit of happiness"?? it got run over by social conformity. Ps. Make caffine and nicotine illegal and you’ll see a lot of crime “related” to those substances too as their price inflates.. you’d think our govt would understand the economics, but again the last thing the govt really wants is a society of individuals who think for themselves and make decision based on that thought instead of following the herd..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #59 March 8, 2003 Amen. A coworker of mine likes to say, "don't shit where you eat". If you want to smoke, ingest, snort, inject or whatever, be courteous and do it in a way that minimizes the adverse effects on your neighbors. That means off the DZ until it's legal nathaniel My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #60 March 8, 2003 Quotebut see thats the thing I'm not doing wrong our current system is flawed What makes us a civilized society is that we all agree to abide by social, cultural and legal norms, That is why we have laws. Your perogative is that the system is flawed but the majority in society feel differently and hence there is a law. If EVERYBODY felt this was a flawed law then I'm sure it would be changed. However, I will restate my focus. DON'T DO YOUR ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AT THE DZ, it is detrimental to everyone in the long run and to the sport. Nathaniel hit the nail on the head..."don't shit where you eat""It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #61 March 8, 2003 well look at it this way then. In a number of states (NC being one of them) sodomy is illegal as well. many of those states also lump oral sex in with sodomy, so next time your getting some head (on or off the DZ) imagine the local jackboots kicking in your door and hauling you and your gf (or bf) off to jail, where the judge decides to give you the max sentence, because he hasnt gotten any himself recently.. but.. "you knew you were doing wrong" the law is WAY behind what is culturally accepted, and unfortunately the majority of the voting public is sheep, doesnt think, doenst want to think and is afraid of change never mind it the change is only to the law so that it catches up with the social reality.. bad laws should be broken, more people need to raise hell and defend themselves anytime a bad law is enforced.. hell anyone care to guess what the total bill is for that little "sting" operation? how long did they hang out and detain him to get a warrant ? and exactly what do you think they've found? a few joints? an ounce or two if they are lucky?? how about not wasting my tax money on such friviolus offences eh? oh wait..stop making sense, thats going to be a crime soon too...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunman 0 #62 March 8, 2003 Lou - please do not imply that I am a user of illegal narcotics. I am not. You have some good points about keeping drugs off the dz. I also agree that if you do it, be prepared to face the consequences. As far as weed leading to harder drugs, I think we all know that first mind-altering substance that most people try is ALCOHOL. Once again, I will re-state that if weed is illegal, then tobacco and alcohol should also be illegal. I also agree with Zenister that the problems with weed stem (no pun intended) from the fact that it is illegal. Just out of curiosity, let's say for a moment that it's legal. Farmers grow it and sell it just like tobacco. Are you still opposed to people using it? In other words, are your convictions against pot (which I totally respect) based on the fact that it is illegal or based on your opinion that it is harmful to the individual/society? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites suz 0 #63 March 8, 2003 This sucks. But the guy made it worse for himself to refuse a search of his vehicle. Sometimes, you gotta have a bad day. Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #64 March 8, 2003 QuoteLou - please do not imply that I am a user of illegal narcotics. I am not. I don't know where I implied that, no worries. Just to appease your and Zenns rhetoric about legalization. Lets say it is leagalized and farmers start growing it and instead of tobacco, big companies like RJ start producing marajuana products, tobacco takes the route that RC cola took when Coke and pepsi hit. Imagine all the problems there currently are with tobacco. Legal suits, price per pack, taxes and so on.. You want to pay tax on your weed? The health risks obviously don't worry you so I won't go into those. How about the other new laws that would be created by the legalization of it. You want someone telling you the rules of use? The list of things goes on and on when you open this pandoras box. I think all of the people who scream legalize would be in for a great surprise when they saw all the Gov't red tape and involvement that it would in tail. So what's next after marajuna, coke, heroin,crack? To digress back to the original topic a bit( heaven forbid) doing your drugs, any kind, at the DZ is detrimental for everyone, even those who don't smoke. If your drug use casues the DZ to face problems from the authorities it will eventually be shut down. How would you like to be known as the one(s) who caused a DZ to be shut down? On a side note: I happened to see the Marajuanalogs on tv the other night. I say to those of you who like to partake in it's use, how ever often, party on. It appears that drug use is another form of Darwinism at it's best. If you choose to thin your self from the gene pool by all means do so. I don't care to continue debating this since as I stated we can both continue to drop supporting analogies and situations until we're blue in the face and arrive at nothing. Just as you strongly support your use of your addiction to use pot I will strongly support my addiction...skydiving(which isn't illegal), and if your addiction causes my addiction to be curtailed I and others will be very upset with those who make our addiction harder to fullfill. Can we agree on this?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #65 March 8, 2003 *** I wonder why, because you do not have to have a search warrant for a vehicle if you have probable cause (in this case the odor of burning marijuana) to believe there is contraband inside. Since vehicle are "highly mobile" they have been determined, in the eyes of the court, to be exempt from the requirements for a search warrant. I'd be interested to know what 'really' was going on... *** Our policy is to get a search warrant if at all possible. Even if an exception is warranted. It just prevents problems later on down the road. Maybe they have the same policy. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #66 March 8, 2003 Question for you law enforcement folk... It is my understanding that undercover narcotics officers don't randomly select a place to "hang out". In your opinion, not knowing the department's regulations and protocol on this particular event, would they have picked the DZ randomly, or would there have needed to have been some sort of "complaint" filed and investigation undertaken which would have created this incident? And for jumpers at this DZ regularly, my question is, was there a known problem with drugs prior to the officers' presence? And do you all have a Farmer McNasty hanging around, or any sort of airport dispute? Just curious as to the origination of the officers being there. They had the right to be there, working u/c, no doubt. Just curious as to any preceding events there which may have led to their presence. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #67 March 8, 2003 QuoteIt is my understanding that undercover narcotics officers don't randomly select a place to "hang out". In your opinion, not knowing the department's regulations and protocol on this particular event, would they have picked the DZ randomly, or would there have needed to have been some sort of "complaint" filed and investigation undertaken which would have created this incident? If it was my department, we would only send undercover officers in if we have had a citizen complain about drug use (or other illegal activity) at the event or location. We don't usually troll for drug use. They most likely had information that drugs were being sold at the DZ. We rarely worry about marijuana users unless they can lead us to a big supplier. Busting somebody for smoking pot is too much paperwork and they don't get any time anyway. It is usually only done if their is somebody bigger in the equation. Just my opinion. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #68 March 8, 2003 Mcguffee, that's what I thought. I asked a friend who is an officer about the policies/protocol here (Burbank), and his response was the same. "U/C narcotics don't generally wander around, hoping to smell it in the air" was his comment... I think that someone may have called and complained, and the U/C might have decided that the boogie equalled more of a chance to catch someone drunk and disorderly, under the influence, or selling. As these are low level misdemeanors, and not felonies, I am still curious as to what was said to this department to instigate their presence. Just me being curious... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #69 March 8, 2003 If a jumper got caught smoking a joint in the afternoon, I have no sympathy for him. Skydiving while stoned has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, or seen. Unfortunately, I've seen it pretty frequently. I can also point to fatalities that most likely happened as a result. If he's smoking up in the afternoon I'm guessing he's about to jump stoned. If the cops were wandering around behind the hanger looking for people smoking a joint when everybody else was partying around a bonfire, I'd seriously wonder about their priorities. We're not talking about that, though. Smoking a joint is illegal, and the US is a democracy. The drug laws were passed with public support. Until those laws are changed, that's what we've got. Breaking the law in any way other then a discreet and responsible way is stupid. It does not sound like this jumper was either discreet, or responsible. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #70 March 8, 2003 QuoteIf a jumper got caught smoking a joint in the afternoon, I have no sympathy for him. Skydiving while stoned has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, or seen. Unfortunately, I've seen it pretty frequently. I can also point to fatalities that most likely happened as a result. If he's smoking up in the afternoon I'm guessing he's about to jump stoned. I feel the same. I don't want you on a load I'm on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dkearns 0 #71 March 8, 2003 Mark, I have about six tandems on the book for tomorrow (saturday) and around 15 for sunday. I need vidiots and meat haulers, so come on down to Raeford if you want to work. First to sign the roster gets first work. No advertising on DZ forums. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #72 March 8, 2003 i am finding it hard to accept that sky divers do illegal substances of any kind at all. personally, for me, i have never done drugs, i'd be lying if i denied smoking a joint or two when i was 18 or 19, but that's it. jumping out of an aircraft intentionally and relying on the skills that i have learned is not only challenging, but the most exillarating, euphoric feeling i've ever experienced in my entire life, i don't need drugs, and i'm glad i don't use them. for those that wish to do so, they are not only endangering a sport that they love, but the other sky divers and DZ/DZO as well. "just say no" to drugs. if i pitched at 2500 AGL and had a streamer, or bag lock, i'd much rather be straight than UTI of an illegal substance, the fact of the matter is illegal substances slow down your motor skills and awareness level, it's a proven fact, legal, or not. even if drugs were legal, i wouldn't do them, life is too short to waste your "grey matter" on drugs. don't be a "dopER" or you may wind up in the last 2 letters. drugs = R.I.P.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyThomas 0 #73 March 8, 2003 Quotei am finding it hard to accept that sky divers do illegal substances of any kind at all. Skydivers are a very diverse group. Not everyone fits into the "law-abiding" category. Quote personally, for me, i have never done drugs, i'd be lying if i denied smoking a joint or two when i was 18 or 19, but that's it. Which is it then? Never did drugs, or smoked a joint or two? They are different. I think what poses the biggest threat to American society is the general attitude of "That law doesn't affect me, so why should I worry?" It's the slippery slope we're talking about. What comes first is getting the sheeple to start tolerating control. Once the sheeple have begun to accept control, they feel powerless to go against control. Some sheeple even feel safer because of control. Want to talk about the future of model rocketry, because a few politicians thought it would be a good idea and appeal to "public safety interests" to put forth the regulation on model rockets? or should we phrase it "Taking an opportunity away" from many children that we as children had? Or should we talk about the right to travel freely, regardless of your credit history? And what relevance credit history has in the world of terrorism? They all seem little petty arguments to some (unaffected people), but for others it may be more personal. Just bow down and let Uncle Sam have his way. yeah...I'm reaching far for valid argument, and have probably mentioned nothing valid. Later, Thomas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #74 March 8, 2003 QuoteWhich is it then? Never did drugs, or smoked a joint or two? well first that was 25 years ago and i kinda thought this statement was concise, guess not. (i'll make a special consession for you CT) i didn't want to come off as a hypocrite, thus my admission to having experimented with marijuana. i have never done anything else..ever. QuoteI think what poses the biggest threat to American society is the general attitude of "That law doesn't affect me, so why should I worry?" your rationale has always been way off, so this remark doesn't surprise me, being as it came from you. QuoteSkydivers are a very diverse group. Not everyone fits into the "law-abiding" category. see above comment. i bet the sky divers who do get high would dissagree with this ludricrous statement. QuoteI'm reaching far for valid argument, and have probably mentioned nothing valid. i think you've summed it up rather well with this zinger. i will say this, if i ever see you at a DZ, or any other sky diving event, i will leave the premises at once, because it is my decision not to skydive with people who i know in advance are going to use, or will use, or have the ignorance to use illegal substances during operations at a skydiving facility. if this makes me a "law abiding idiot" so be it, i'll out live you chief.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #75 March 8, 2003 If there's two organizations I think this country would be better off without it would be the DEA and BATF. Bunch of Gestapo cowboys. Glad I'll have a badge of my own in a few more weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
FlyGuy 0 #55 March 8, 2003 I would just like to add my .02 to this thread. I know of 2 dzs that are located right next door to a police substation and people still come to jump and have fun. Why, because we have nothing to hide.... just a thought, but how many of us would want to participate on a say 16 way if we knew a couple of the people on it were smoking pot earlier that day? In my opinion a dz is not a place to be doing that. I think we should ALL be pissed at the fool who is jepardizing or dz/boogie/sport by doing such a stupid thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #56 March 8, 2003 Lou while you have some good points a great deal of the problems you describe exist ONLY because it is illegal. If you legalize it the profit goes to the govt (who can make it cheaper) instead of the drug lords (who give a rats ass about what they sell, it would be widgets if they had the same profit margins they only want the money) as to the individuals that cant handle themselves, think of it as darwin in action. Until their use harms someone else its irrelevant to society, but once it does charge them with the crime they committed, (DUI, robbery, murder etc..) no extenuating circumstances, nothing. People should be required to be responsible for themselves and their actions no matter what their state of mind or intoxication level. Of course the last thing the government really wants is citizens thinking for themselves, they might wake up and realize how much liberty they have already had taken from them. the whole anti-drug campaign is yet another symptom of the "its not my fault i was forced to do it because....." blame shifting game that has become fundemental to our courts. I obey all laws I believe to be just and will defend my right to do so to the death (and the deaths of many others who are only "doing their jobs" if necessary) if they come kicking down my door for something our bloated misguided micromanagement justice system thinks is “wrong”____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #57 March 8, 2003 Like I said, thats your perogative. You KNOW your doing wrong,weather you feel it's wrong or not. That's your choice to make.Don't get upset when the piper comes to collect. My focus is don't do it at the DZ or anywhere that it can be related to skydiving as a whole."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #58 March 8, 2003 but see thats the thing I'm not doing wrong our current system is flawed are you responsible for your actions or not? does it matter what else might have influenced those actions when the question is asked "well did he do it?" Everything else is secondary. unfortunately our culture would rather pass the blame on to a third party (often an inanimate substance) instead of holding the individual accountable for themselves and their actions. anyone who claims personal responsibility should have no issues with drug use of any kind so long as the individuals actions did not threaten others. lots of things will kill you. the responsible mind decides what manner to risk their OWN lives. whatever happened to "pursuit of happiness"?? it got run over by social conformity. Ps. Make caffine and nicotine illegal and you’ll see a lot of crime “related” to those substances too as their price inflates.. you’d think our govt would understand the economics, but again the last thing the govt really wants is a society of individuals who think for themselves and make decision based on that thought instead of following the herd..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #59 March 8, 2003 Amen. A coworker of mine likes to say, "don't shit where you eat". If you want to smoke, ingest, snort, inject or whatever, be courteous and do it in a way that minimizes the adverse effects on your neighbors. That means off the DZ until it's legal nathaniel My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #60 March 8, 2003 Quotebut see thats the thing I'm not doing wrong our current system is flawed What makes us a civilized society is that we all agree to abide by social, cultural and legal norms, That is why we have laws. Your perogative is that the system is flawed but the majority in society feel differently and hence there is a law. If EVERYBODY felt this was a flawed law then I'm sure it would be changed. However, I will restate my focus. DON'T DO YOUR ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AT THE DZ, it is detrimental to everyone in the long run and to the sport. Nathaniel hit the nail on the head..."don't shit where you eat""It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #61 March 8, 2003 well look at it this way then. In a number of states (NC being one of them) sodomy is illegal as well. many of those states also lump oral sex in with sodomy, so next time your getting some head (on or off the DZ) imagine the local jackboots kicking in your door and hauling you and your gf (or bf) off to jail, where the judge decides to give you the max sentence, because he hasnt gotten any himself recently.. but.. "you knew you were doing wrong" the law is WAY behind what is culturally accepted, and unfortunately the majority of the voting public is sheep, doesnt think, doenst want to think and is afraid of change never mind it the change is only to the law so that it catches up with the social reality.. bad laws should be broken, more people need to raise hell and defend themselves anytime a bad law is enforced.. hell anyone care to guess what the total bill is for that little "sting" operation? how long did they hang out and detain him to get a warrant ? and exactly what do you think they've found? a few joints? an ounce or two if they are lucky?? how about not wasting my tax money on such friviolus offences eh? oh wait..stop making sense, thats going to be a crime soon too...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #62 March 8, 2003 Lou - please do not imply that I am a user of illegal narcotics. I am not. You have some good points about keeping drugs off the dz. I also agree that if you do it, be prepared to face the consequences. As far as weed leading to harder drugs, I think we all know that first mind-altering substance that most people try is ALCOHOL. Once again, I will re-state that if weed is illegal, then tobacco and alcohol should also be illegal. I also agree with Zenister that the problems with weed stem (no pun intended) from the fact that it is illegal. Just out of curiosity, let's say for a moment that it's legal. Farmers grow it and sell it just like tobacco. Are you still opposed to people using it? In other words, are your convictions against pot (which I totally respect) based on the fact that it is illegal or based on your opinion that it is harmful to the individual/society? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suz 0 #63 March 8, 2003 This sucks. But the guy made it worse for himself to refuse a search of his vehicle. Sometimes, you gotta have a bad day. Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #64 March 8, 2003 QuoteLou - please do not imply that I am a user of illegal narcotics. I am not. I don't know where I implied that, no worries. Just to appease your and Zenns rhetoric about legalization. Lets say it is leagalized and farmers start growing it and instead of tobacco, big companies like RJ start producing marajuana products, tobacco takes the route that RC cola took when Coke and pepsi hit. Imagine all the problems there currently are with tobacco. Legal suits, price per pack, taxes and so on.. You want to pay tax on your weed? The health risks obviously don't worry you so I won't go into those. How about the other new laws that would be created by the legalization of it. You want someone telling you the rules of use? The list of things goes on and on when you open this pandoras box. I think all of the people who scream legalize would be in for a great surprise when they saw all the Gov't red tape and involvement that it would in tail. So what's next after marajuna, coke, heroin,crack? To digress back to the original topic a bit( heaven forbid) doing your drugs, any kind, at the DZ is detrimental for everyone, even those who don't smoke. If your drug use casues the DZ to face problems from the authorities it will eventually be shut down. How would you like to be known as the one(s) who caused a DZ to be shut down? On a side note: I happened to see the Marajuanalogs on tv the other night. I say to those of you who like to partake in it's use, how ever often, party on. It appears that drug use is another form of Darwinism at it's best. If you choose to thin your self from the gene pool by all means do so. I don't care to continue debating this since as I stated we can both continue to drop supporting analogies and situations until we're blue in the face and arrive at nothing. Just as you strongly support your use of your addiction to use pot I will strongly support my addiction...skydiving(which isn't illegal), and if your addiction causes my addiction to be curtailed I and others will be very upset with those who make our addiction harder to fullfill. Can we agree on this?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #65 March 8, 2003 *** I wonder why, because you do not have to have a search warrant for a vehicle if you have probable cause (in this case the odor of burning marijuana) to believe there is contraband inside. Since vehicle are "highly mobile" they have been determined, in the eyes of the court, to be exempt from the requirements for a search warrant. I'd be interested to know what 'really' was going on... *** Our policy is to get a search warrant if at all possible. Even if an exception is warranted. It just prevents problems later on down the road. Maybe they have the same policy. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #66 March 8, 2003 Question for you law enforcement folk... It is my understanding that undercover narcotics officers don't randomly select a place to "hang out". In your opinion, not knowing the department's regulations and protocol on this particular event, would they have picked the DZ randomly, or would there have needed to have been some sort of "complaint" filed and investigation undertaken which would have created this incident? And for jumpers at this DZ regularly, my question is, was there a known problem with drugs prior to the officers' presence? And do you all have a Farmer McNasty hanging around, or any sort of airport dispute? Just curious as to the origination of the officers being there. They had the right to be there, working u/c, no doubt. Just curious as to any preceding events there which may have led to their presence. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #67 March 8, 2003 QuoteIt is my understanding that undercover narcotics officers don't randomly select a place to "hang out". In your opinion, not knowing the department's regulations and protocol on this particular event, would they have picked the DZ randomly, or would there have needed to have been some sort of "complaint" filed and investigation undertaken which would have created this incident? If it was my department, we would only send undercover officers in if we have had a citizen complain about drug use (or other illegal activity) at the event or location. We don't usually troll for drug use. They most likely had information that drugs were being sold at the DZ. We rarely worry about marijuana users unless they can lead us to a big supplier. Busting somebody for smoking pot is too much paperwork and they don't get any time anyway. It is usually only done if their is somebody bigger in the equation. Just my opinion. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #68 March 8, 2003 Mcguffee, that's what I thought. I asked a friend who is an officer about the policies/protocol here (Burbank), and his response was the same. "U/C narcotics don't generally wander around, hoping to smell it in the air" was his comment... I think that someone may have called and complained, and the U/C might have decided that the boogie equalled more of a chance to catch someone drunk and disorderly, under the influence, or selling. As these are low level misdemeanors, and not felonies, I am still curious as to what was said to this department to instigate their presence. Just me being curious... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #69 March 8, 2003 If a jumper got caught smoking a joint in the afternoon, I have no sympathy for him. Skydiving while stoned has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, or seen. Unfortunately, I've seen it pretty frequently. I can also point to fatalities that most likely happened as a result. If he's smoking up in the afternoon I'm guessing he's about to jump stoned. If the cops were wandering around behind the hanger looking for people smoking a joint when everybody else was partying around a bonfire, I'd seriously wonder about their priorities. We're not talking about that, though. Smoking a joint is illegal, and the US is a democracy. The drug laws were passed with public support. Until those laws are changed, that's what we've got. Breaking the law in any way other then a discreet and responsible way is stupid. It does not sound like this jumper was either discreet, or responsible. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #70 March 8, 2003 QuoteIf a jumper got caught smoking a joint in the afternoon, I have no sympathy for him. Skydiving while stoned has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, or seen. Unfortunately, I've seen it pretty frequently. I can also point to fatalities that most likely happened as a result. If he's smoking up in the afternoon I'm guessing he's about to jump stoned. I feel the same. I don't want you on a load I'm on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkearns 0 #71 March 8, 2003 Mark, I have about six tandems on the book for tomorrow (saturday) and around 15 for sunday. I need vidiots and meat haulers, so come on down to Raeford if you want to work. First to sign the roster gets first work. No advertising on DZ forums. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #72 March 8, 2003 i am finding it hard to accept that sky divers do illegal substances of any kind at all. personally, for me, i have never done drugs, i'd be lying if i denied smoking a joint or two when i was 18 or 19, but that's it. jumping out of an aircraft intentionally and relying on the skills that i have learned is not only challenging, but the most exillarating, euphoric feeling i've ever experienced in my entire life, i don't need drugs, and i'm glad i don't use them. for those that wish to do so, they are not only endangering a sport that they love, but the other sky divers and DZ/DZO as well. "just say no" to drugs. if i pitched at 2500 AGL and had a streamer, or bag lock, i'd much rather be straight than UTI of an illegal substance, the fact of the matter is illegal substances slow down your motor skills and awareness level, it's a proven fact, legal, or not. even if drugs were legal, i wouldn't do them, life is too short to waste your "grey matter" on drugs. don't be a "dopER" or you may wind up in the last 2 letters. drugs = R.I.P.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyThomas 0 #73 March 8, 2003 Quotei am finding it hard to accept that sky divers do illegal substances of any kind at all. Skydivers are a very diverse group. Not everyone fits into the "law-abiding" category. Quote personally, for me, i have never done drugs, i'd be lying if i denied smoking a joint or two when i was 18 or 19, but that's it. Which is it then? Never did drugs, or smoked a joint or two? They are different. I think what poses the biggest threat to American society is the general attitude of "That law doesn't affect me, so why should I worry?" It's the slippery slope we're talking about. What comes first is getting the sheeple to start tolerating control. Once the sheeple have begun to accept control, they feel powerless to go against control. Some sheeple even feel safer because of control. Want to talk about the future of model rocketry, because a few politicians thought it would be a good idea and appeal to "public safety interests" to put forth the regulation on model rockets? or should we phrase it "Taking an opportunity away" from many children that we as children had? Or should we talk about the right to travel freely, regardless of your credit history? And what relevance credit history has in the world of terrorism? They all seem little petty arguments to some (unaffected people), but for others it may be more personal. Just bow down and let Uncle Sam have his way. yeah...I'm reaching far for valid argument, and have probably mentioned nothing valid. Later, Thomas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #74 March 8, 2003 QuoteWhich is it then? Never did drugs, or smoked a joint or two? well first that was 25 years ago and i kinda thought this statement was concise, guess not. (i'll make a special consession for you CT) i didn't want to come off as a hypocrite, thus my admission to having experimented with marijuana. i have never done anything else..ever. QuoteI think what poses the biggest threat to American society is the general attitude of "That law doesn't affect me, so why should I worry?" your rationale has always been way off, so this remark doesn't surprise me, being as it came from you. QuoteSkydivers are a very diverse group. Not everyone fits into the "law-abiding" category. see above comment. i bet the sky divers who do get high would dissagree with this ludricrous statement. QuoteI'm reaching far for valid argument, and have probably mentioned nothing valid. i think you've summed it up rather well with this zinger. i will say this, if i ever see you at a DZ, or any other sky diving event, i will leave the premises at once, because it is my decision not to skydive with people who i know in advance are going to use, or will use, or have the ignorance to use illegal substances during operations at a skydiving facility. if this makes me a "law abiding idiot" so be it, i'll out live you chief.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #75 March 8, 2003 If there's two organizations I think this country would be better off without it would be the DEA and BATF. Bunch of Gestapo cowboys. Glad I'll have a badge of my own in a few more weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
