For Rhino - Americans Funding Terrorists

[Genie 0]

http://www.megastories.com/ireland/glossary2/noraid.htm
text for your convenience:

NoraidAn American support group for the Republican cause, the Irish Northern Aid Committee, to use its full name, has been accused of funding the IRA. Group leaders have always denied this, saying Noraid was set up in 1969 to provide relief for families of Republican guerrillas jailed or killed in the struggle. Its founder, Michael Flannery, was himself an IRA man back in the 1920s.
There are over 40 million Americans who claim some Irish descent. Many major cities such as Boston, New York and Chicago have large Irish communities where Irish Republicanism and anti-British feeling flourishes.
In 1977, the U.S. Department of Justice made Noraid register officially as an agent of the Provisional IRA.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - that good enough for you Rhino?

The group has said its funds are distributed through Sinn Fein in Dublin and the Green Cross in Belfast. In 1982, five Noraid officials were acquitted in New York of gun-running to the IRA. Flannery, one of the five, denied that he had been involved in gun-running to the IRA, but said he approved of it.
The group raised a lot of money in the early 1980s when sympathy ran high because of the Hunger Strikes. But by 1990, British minister Peter Brooke said Noraid had declined in significance as a funder of the IRA.
It still raises the hackles of the British government and infuriates Unionists. Noraid and other Irish American groups frequently send observers to Northern Ireland flashpoints.


BTW it gets my hackles up too big-time. I object to people, who know nothing from a personal standpoint, funding people who kill children, bomb civilians and use Black and Decker Drill on peoples knees IN MY COUNTRY.

Now - lets see who will address this, or will this thread just die a death because no one wants to admit it?

Genie

[jraf 0]

Let's carpet bomb Boston, just make sure you don't touch Little Italy. There are innocent civilians there

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[quatorze 1]

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... Boston ...Little Italy. There are innocent civilians there

"TWEEEET" and the ref is calling a bullshit card against Hans, oh this has got to hurt the home team....

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[Genie 0]

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Let's carpet bomb Boston, just make sure you don't touch Little Italy. There are innocent civilians there

When i mentioned that i was asked to show proof or shut the hell up. I dunno - if your US dept of justice says they are agents of a terrorist organisation, is that enough proof?

Genie

[skreamer 1]

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Now - lets see who will address this, or will this thread just die a death because no one wants to admit it?

Be careful you don't go pissing off all the Plastic Paddies, I mean one of their great great great grandparents left Ireland because of the potato famine. This makes them Irish American - that is why they support the IRA, because of their *roots* and the way that great great great grandparent of theirs was persecuted by the English...

The IRA makes their money out of organized crime and misguided American benefactors. If there was a peaceful resolution to the troubles, what would all those IRA gunmen do for a living? (same goes for the right-wing neonazi skinhead Unionists in the north - same scum, different flavour)

[kiltboy 0]

Or the ones that once got a postcard from a friend.

THe organised crime is the main source of cash. Do you remember a series of killings claimed by a group called "direct action against drugs"?

More like direct action against the competition.

David

[Guest]

We're basically talking about "useful idiots" here. It wasn't the US government doing the donating. Officially, the US was supporting the British position on "The Troubles".

The "Relief" stuff was good cover for the Provos, even though they were getting plenty of hardware from the East Bloc at the time.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[PhillyKev 0]

Won't you ever understand. When we support them they're "freedom fighters" not terrorists. Big difference.

[kallend 2,150]

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We're basically talking about "useful idiots" here. It wasn't the US government doing the donating. Officially, the US was supporting the British position on "The Troubles".

The "Relief" stuff was good cover for the Provos, even though they were getting plenty of hardware from the East Bloc at the time.

So what did the US do in support of their allies to stop this support of terrorists from misguided US citizens? Sweet F. A.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jraf 0]

Dude proof? In 1992 I was celebrating St. Patricks day in a true Irish dive in Boston, and believe is or not I was witness to an IRA fundraiser. Seeing is believing.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[Guest]

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So what did the US do in support of their allies to stop this support of terrorists from misguided US citizens? Sweet F. A.

Not much, unfortunately.

Consider the times. "The Troubles" began in 1972. The US was still embroiled in Vietnam, there were anti-war protests going on, and there were a lot of naive and generous Americans of Irish descent being convinced that they were helping people in NI.

The Provos didn't really need American money (they were getting plenty of Warsaw Pact weapons thanks to the USSR's East Bloc stooges), but it did give them a patina of legitimacy.

Since then, the Provos have shown their true colors, and they're not green - they're red. The only factor that has changed things is the political shift since 1990, when the East Bloc blew apart. That more than anything else is forcing Sinn Fein to negotiate.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rhino 0]

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In 1982, five Noraid officials were acquitted in New York of gun-running to the IRA.

Where is your proof? I am still waiting? This sure isn't it... Try again..

Rhino

[kiltboy 0]

Afternoon Rhino.

I'm not sure what you would accept as proof, possibly a conviction in a court of law that someone associated with NORAID was a terrorist perhaps.

I did a quick search and found a few dubious websites but I also found this one.

http://www.buffaloirish.com/noraid.htm

If you read through the text on it you see language referring to persons convicted under anti-terrorism legislation as prisoners of war. Notably Bobby Sands who was under UK law a convicted terrorist. I find it hard to argue that NORAID is not sympathetic to terrorism activity.

Taken from their own webpage www.inac.org

"Irish Northern Aid continues to support the struggle for a united Ireland and works with the Republican movement in Ireland to help former political prisoners. Through Coiste na n-Iarchimí (The Ex-Prisoners Coordinating Committee), we provide financial support for organizations that assist ex-POWs and their families with personal, family and career counseling, job training and support in fighting the social and economic discrimination they face because of their status as veterans. We continue to assist the families of current Republican political prisoners, as well as, the families of volunteers who have died for their country."

I've read plenty here about people that support terrorists should go. Paying money to suicude bombers etc. How would you feel about folks supporting the people and families of the people held at camp x-ray?

David

[PhillyKev 0]

It's more proof than we have against Saddam.

[jdhill 0]

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The only reason i posted this is because so many people are saying one of the reasons to go to war is because Sadaam funds terrorists and supports terrorists familes - i just wanted to point out that people in glass houses shouldnt be throwing stones.

There is no parallel between Iraq's support for terrorism and this groups support for the PIRA.

The group you cited does not represent the government of the US, like SH does the government of Iraq... big difference. The US government has regularly made efforts to stop anything more than political support for the IRA (they may not have always been effective)... The FBI has bagged many IRA bad guys, and when there is sufficient evidence of illegal activity, they have and will go after these groups too.

There is ample evidence of the Iraqi government's support for terrorism.

Josh

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[rhino 0]

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It's more proof than we have against Saddam.

I beg to differ...

[bodypilot90 0]

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It's more proof than we have against Saddam.

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I beg to differ...

they will have thier proof when we free Iraq, I wonder how bad they would fight this is Slick Willy was in power? I find it odd that the demo's hold up Carter as a man of great wisdom. Remember the carter days 16% intrest rates on houses. Inflation rate how high? Defunding the armed services. This isn't about hating war for most it's about hating Bush.

[jraf 0]

That is exactly what Stalin said about Poland: They will have proof when we free them.

How about leaving them to boil in their own sauce. You seem to care a lot about Iraq. I don't, definitely not enough to have my friends sent over there to "free" them.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[PhillyKev 0]

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they will have thier proof when we free Iraq, I wonder how bad they would fight this is Slick Willy was in power? I find it odd that the demo's hold up Carter as a man of great wisdom. Remember the carter days 16% intrest rates on houses. Inflation rate how high? Defunding the armed services. This isn't about hating war for most it's about hating Bush.

Talk about a disjointed train of thought that has nothing to do with anything anyone else has posted.

Why do you think some of us hate Bush....could it possibly be because of choices and policies such as this? By the way, I voted for more republicans than democrats last election (but didn't vote for Bush).

[kiltboy 0]

Sorry I don't follow your argument.

I think the difference with regard to PIRA and private cittizens funding their activity is that there is proof in the public forum.

Done on that thread.

As I have said time and again there is an argument for action but GWB & co have presented it in a piss poor fashion. I have no political reasons for supporting or opposing what is about to happen so the political argument is a non starter. Calling up old presidents and innaccurate references to WW2 hasn't convinced me in anyway about what they are about to do.

The diplomacy towards nations other than Iraq has been abysmal. The focus has been on the domestic audience with a half arsed attempt at getting a coalition together as the UN were dismissed from the get go.

It's not about hating Bush, it's not about hating America but if Bush & co listened to the concerns expressed by other nations they could have intelligently countered them. I've seen better arguments presented on these boards than I've heard from members of the US and UK governments.

David

[wmw999 2,589]

Carter wasn't perfect, but if you'll recall, the increase in inflation started before his term, and finished after his term.

Your use of pejoratives to characterize people you disagree with delegitimizes what you say.

If Clinton were president (I don't like to think of it as "being in power" as that robs from the job and gives it to the person), I'd be against our going across the ocean to kick some butt under the same circumstances.

If you'll recall, we went to join other forces in Kosovo, in an emergent situation. Iraq has been going on a long time though, and I still haven't figured out why it's the US's call to decide when enough is enough. It's an ugly situation. Saddam Hussein is a bad man. But why will fighting him this week instead of the end of the month save more children?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bodypilot90 0]

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How about leaving them to boil in their own sauce. You seem to care a lot about Iraq. I don't, definitely not enough to have my friends sent over there to "free" them.

it's not only about freeing them but of reducing the threat to the world

[billvon 3,120]

>they will have thier proof when we free Iraq . . .

I doubt that. I think the same thing will happen in Iraq that happened in Afghanistan i.e. the initial objective will be to 'get' someone or something, which we will change retroactively to "hey, we're fighting a war of liberation; that's the important thing" when we can't find much in the way of WMD's (or Hussein himself, for that matter.)

>I wonder how bad they would fight this is Slick Willy was in power?

Where did that come from? He's not president any more. If it had been Gore, we would have been at war a year ago; he was one of the strongest hawks in the Clinton administration. He was also a pretty good diplomat, though, so I suspect we'd have gone in with the UN.

>This isn't about hating war for most it's about hating Bush.

If he could have gotten Hussein disarmed without killing civilians - heck, I would have voted for him in two years. If he had managed to not alienate the rest of the world he would have at least had that going for him. He did a good job on diesel emissions and funding initiatives for NASA though.

[skydyvr 0]

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the initial objective will be to 'get' someone or something

The objective has already been stated clearly -- to drive Hussein out of power, not to "get" him, as was the original intention with OBL. I don't think the Pres cares a whit where Hussein ends up, as long as it is into obscurity.

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which we will change retroactively to "hey, we're fighting a war of liberation; that's the important thing"

The fighting will be over before you can say that 3 times fast.

. . =(_8^(1)

[bodypilot90 0]

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If you'll recall, we went to join other forces in Kosovo, in an emergent situation.

did we have UN approval?

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Iraq has been going on a long time though, and I still haven't figured out why it's the US's call to decide when enough is enough.

we a group of 40 nations agree along with 66-75% (depending on who's poll you believe)of the usa agree 12 years is long enouph. He is a great risk to the US and the world. To me the only thing we needed to know is he has said he will not get rid of WMD and the link to SH and 9-11.

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I'd be against our going across the ocean to kick some butt under the same circumstances.

That's not the group of 40's reason see above.

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Carter wasn't perfect, but if you'll recall, the increase in inflation started before his term, and finished after his term.

And who got us out of inflation surge? And started the longest growth period of US History? Do you remember? (off topic I know but for the younger crowd who was not there)