Fayard Enterprises goes bankrupt?????

[jfields 0]

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In this case, he may be fair, he may not be. If he's being fair, he may just be instrumental in saving the lives of a dozen of our friends. If he's not being fair, ignore him. I would much, much rather err on the side of caution, and I would encourage people like Chris to question DZO's about safety, maintenance and legality issues. We've lost too many skydivers to ignore problems like this.

I agree 100%. I also know that we have to be equal in our self-imposed scrutiny of skydivers and dropzones. It isn't right to bring negative publicity to light about one particular operation, true or not, and discourage others from being equally concerned and inquisitive about another.

In reference to some honest non-libelous statements and questions regarding the relatively recent drug-related death at SDC, the shoe was on the other foot. In that thread, there seemed to be a lot of denial from the SDC folks and downplaying of people's very valid concerns. CSS isn't my home DZ. Neither is SDC. I'm equally concerned with the safety of *every* dropzone I frequent. Where I see things I don't like, I don't return. I'm *not* stating that I believe that to be true about either place mentioned.

The discrepancy in treatment is what I think some people are objecting to, rather than the concern for the safety of jumpers and passengers, which is certainly laudable.

[eeneR 3]

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Yes, he's filing Chapter 11, not 7. Big difference.

This is still a bankruptcy non the less....had he filed Chapter 7, well then he would pretty much have nothing left to fly.

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Some may argue that by filing Chapter 11 he is doing so.

He is filing chapter 11 to save the business. He must keep vigilant with the maintenance of the planes, who he has flying for him and how things are handled. Things will not be all peachy keen $$ wise. It is a difficult thing to go thru. Corners will have to be cut to make ends meet. It is what corners he chooses to cut to make ends meet that will make or break him. The ball is in his court.

(to everyone)
[getting on soap box]
As for Chris having hidden agendas or bashing...BAWHAHWAHAA right whatever. He spends so much of his free time to make this sport safe for all of you. What do you do? You rip him to shreds. How may of you actually know Chris? most dont, maybe some have chatted with him across PM or IM. The internet is a very fake world, things can be assumed or taken any which way you want seeing as there is no real way to portray emotion. I can tell you first hand that he was very concerned about the safety of all of you. There was no vendetta here, he is not "out to get" Fayard. That was implied by others feeling or emotions to the fact that their lift to the sky may be gone. No one not even Chris wants to see Fayard go under, we would rather see him get thru this and fly safely.

This is all he wants for all of you...To be safe.
[\getting on soapbox]
eeneR

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[wildblue 7]

Bill - I agree completely. Jfields actually said again what I was trying to say - it's not a matter of bringing up legit safety concerns, it's doing them in a fair and non-damaging manner.

Jess - I'd be surprised if it did show up in Skydiving. And who that has piped up so far has any loyalty to Fayard? I sure don't - yeah, we usually have one of his planes at my DZ, but it doesn't matter to me if I'm sitting in that or an Otter or a Westwind or anything else with wings and a strong engine. I actually prefer something smaller than a Casa most of the time - too easy to get hosed and land off the DZ out of a Casa

eeneR - I haven't seen anyone "rip him to shreds" - simply question his motives and his way of approaching this one. I think most people appreciate the things Chris does in the name of safety. And again, implying he'll have to "cut corners" - I don't see that. If I'm reading this stuff right, he has a ton more $$ in assets than he does liabilities, and he's making a pointed effort to continue a good business relationship with his parts suppliers in the midst of all this. He wouldn't be the first DZO/businessman to let taxes get him in trouble, and planes didn't fall from the sky then. I'm not saying these aren't valid concerns, I'm just saying some of the FUD could have been left out.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[AndyMan 7]

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If I'm reading this stuff right, he has a ton more $$ in assets than he does liabilities

I read the same thing, specifically assests roughly twice his total liabilities including plane leases and bank dept. I also read 3 profitable years so far, including 2003 YTD. The cause of his problems seem to be a bit of a tax problem. He doesn't seem to like paying them.

Of course I'm neither an accountant nor attorney, so draw your own conclusions.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

[jumping up and down and waving hands wildly] Oooooo Oooooooo PICK ME PICK ME!!!!!!

I would like to say I know both Chris and Jason (even though you didn't respond to my BASE PM )

I know the tension that exists between the 2 dropzones involved. As a jumper at CSS, I heard quite a few negative comments (slander? hmmm) about the other. I have not visited Chicago (despite the plethera of invitations) yet, so I cannot comment on it.

I would only like to point out if Chris had intended to slander Paul he could do so in quite the glorious fashion. In my opinion, he just stated facts, which may have been taken out of context due to personal bias (what is the plural of that word?? ) He did not bring up the rapid turnover of instructors, the turnover of jumpers, and about a million other hard facts he knows. I am not going to post them here because the fire has already started and it would only add fuel. I do know my personal experiences with 4 US DZs and I make my own opinions and decisions based on them. Oddly enough, quite a few 'heads up' jumpers and I share the same opinions. As a conscientious (STAND BACK- Im using big words! -uh, did I spell it right???) jumper, I consider all the facts about a dropzone and its owners, aircraft, pilots, and jumpers---and I come to my own conclusions! (GASP!) The facts Chris brought out did not change my opinion of any part of CSS, and I dont't expect it to for anyone else who has done their homework.


OK, Im headed back out to the farm, and Jason, I STILL haven't seen the arrest video

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[mattb 0]

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United? People choose to stop flying United because we don't have coffee on some flights. I doubt the bankruptcy really has anything to do with their decision making. Don't believe me? Just ask my flight attendant from a few trips ago when we couldn't serve coffee. He wanted a full refund on his ticket from O'Hare to Moline, IL. Whatever.

No coffee is forgivable but on New Year's Even no champagne in first class ? ? ? That was a downright tragedy! (just kidding)