james1010 0 #226 April 12, 2002 " BTW, it is only in the interest of bandwidth, I've chosen to mostly use URLs instead of coping and pasting entire passages as so many others have done. "How does one do that?James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #227 April 12, 2002 QuoteYou're comparing the 'nothing' that exists in a universe that is already created with the 'nothing' that existed before anything was here. In my comprehension that is a large leap.I don't really see your point because to my mind either you have something or nothing.Ok, lemme turn your words around and ask you this then -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #228 April 12, 2002 Actually James, it was you I was refering to.Instructions and examples are HERE.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #229 April 12, 2002 " -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that?Unrevealed . . . our finite minds aren't capable of accepting the existence of an Infinite God, that is where Faith enters the show. I personally believe in His infinity, but I have to accept that by faith.Some will and some will not.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #230 April 12, 2002 Thanks, that'll make things easier.BTW, 'Newbie' has left the building.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #231 April 12, 2002 QuoteUnrevealed . . . our finite minds aren't capable of accepting the existence of an Infinite God, that is where Faith enters the show. I personally believe in His infinity, but I have to accept that by faith.Some will and some will not.Just tied your own argument in a knot with that comment...."Yea, I didn't think we'd actually be turning any points..." ~ Goat #4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #232 April 12, 2002 Quote Way to go, but talk about an epic thread. Geesh! Yeah it's great! I even got to bust out of newbie status from this thread! BTW, I hope you guys don't think I'm just some kind of stodgy, uptight, and nitpicky professor . My passion for what I believe (and the people that it affects most importantly) is strong enough to where it doesn't matter (I hope), but I do also know how to have fun and would gladly jump with anyone here!I for one am thankful for the freedoms that we have where we can all get together and argue and believe whatever we want without the secret police knocking our door in.-Sinkster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #233 April 12, 2002 I personally believe in the infinity of the Universe, rather than a supreme being...QuoteUsing an "atheist" site as a referrence holds about as much water and demands about as much consideration as quoting High Times when trying to prove a point about marijuana.The same could be said about the Bible to those of us who consider it a fantastic piece of fiction.By the way, I'm not an atheist, I think there is some sort of diving meaning to the Universe. But I think of it more as a natural process that exists rather than a single cognizant being who wastes his time in this vast universe dealing with a bunch of puny humans on the third rock from Sol.The whole belief in Abraham's god, or any divine, cognizant being who has chosen humans on earth (or even some sect of humans) as His people is extremely arrogant and naive. In the grand scheme of things were nothing but parasites of this planet, using its resources for our own benefit. For all we know, finger nail fungus has these same thoughts and discussions in a way we don't comprehend. Thinking that the fingernail they inhabit is the universe and that they are the chosen fungus.What makes us so important that we even deserve the attention of the creator of the entire universe. Sorry, but I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago, and I see no difference in this fairy tale.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sinkster 0 #234 April 12, 2002 Quote Ok, lemme turn your words around and ask you this then -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that? The answer is that God always existed. That is, He has no point of origin but always was. That's the answer and is a necessary belief for God to work out at the source of everything.BTW, there are somethings which are nothings. For example, cold is the absence of heat and darkness the absence of light. This doesn't affect any argument but I thought you might enjoy pondering what it means if anything like I did. hehe-Sinkster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #235 April 12, 2002 QuoteOk, lemme turn your words around and ask you this then -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that? Referring back to my original post, I stated that the belief that the universe exploded by chance from nothing was just as hard to believe as that a divine intelligence created the universe from nothing. I did not claim to know the answer. 'Nothing' before the universe was created means exactly that, 'nothing'. No quarks, no matter, absolutely nothing. Science has not proven that quarks disappear into nothing, only that they cease to be detectable by current technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #236 April 12, 2002 BOOBIES "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #237 April 12, 2002 I snuck boobies in about 40 posts back, in the bottom of a long post. But you can never have too many boobies, as long as they aren't man-boobies.Justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #238 April 12, 2002 QuoteBOOBIES Yeah, and no boobies. Nada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #239 April 12, 2002 " Just tied your own argument in a knot with that comment...."Really, how so?I was just stating that not all of the whys and wherefores of God's attributes are revealed. Faith is the key element throughout the entire Bible as it deals with those things that are unseen. It is defined ' the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.' Hebrews 11:1 then the chapter goes on as a kind of Hall of Fame of Faith . . wonderful passage, you should take a look at it.james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #240 April 12, 2002 QuoteDeuteronomy 2013 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemiesI don't know. How come you didn't post the rest of the passage?Skydivers...they're just plain cool!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #241 April 12, 2002 QuoteThe answer is that God always existed. That is, He has no point of origin but always was.But you didn't answer the original question, before He created the universe, where was He?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sinkster 0 #242 April 12, 2002 Quote But you didn't answer the original question, before He created the universe, where was He? Who knows? That's like a cartoon figure asking where his creator was before the page he was drawn on was made and inked. How could the 2 dimensional being even hope to comprehend? Some things we will never know this side of eternity. Yet, not knowing this does not invalidate the possibility of God, it just doesn't add anything either.-Sinkster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Haeloth 0 #243 April 12, 2002 Ok, pretending that your god existence evidence is logical valid;What is the link between that god and the bible and the rest of the christian mythology? (no circular arguments please..) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,148 #244 April 12, 2002 <<I'm just some kind of stodgy, uptight, and nitpicky professor >>>Just what exactly is wrong with professors? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #245 April 12, 2002 Uh, John, not to nitpick, but you forget the modifier.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sinkster 0 #246 April 12, 2002 lol. Honestly, I love my professors. Especially the short old guy from India with a full face beard. hehehe. The dude has so much tenure that he stopped caring what people thought long ago. I *almost* feel sorry for the hapless freshmen and sophomores who somehow end up in his classes!-SinksterSide note after posting and visiting your site: wow nice credentials! that's awesome! You have my respect for what it's worth. One thing that I appreciate about academia and academics--whatever they believe--is their desire and never ending quest for knowledge. A very admirable trait in my opinion. Plus they are good sources to leech info from so I try to hang around them when possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OATSF14 0 #247 April 12, 2002 Even though I disagree with your view of "W", I love this thread. Used to go to the local watering hole after Philosphy Class and continue our discussions. Good times.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apoil 0 #248 April 13, 2002 QuoteUsing an "atheist" site as a referrence holds about as much water and demands about as much consideration as quoting High Times when trying to prove a point about marijuana.About as much water as using the Bible as the sole reference for all things divine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #249 April 13, 2002 Quade, I stopped by work to check this thread (obsessed??) check out the following website, lotta good articles that parallel this debate. It is a Christ-centered website, however, the credentials of the writers are purely scientific . . . they're not a bunch of Bible scholars. Anyway, let me know what you think . . anybody for that matter.http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-idx.htmBlue Skies, James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Milo 0 #250 April 13, 2002 QuoteBy the way, I'm not an atheist, I think there is some sort of diving meaning to the Universe.Yes!!!We were put in this universe to go skydiving!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 10 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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PhillyKev 0 #233 April 12, 2002 I personally believe in the infinity of the Universe, rather than a supreme being...QuoteUsing an "atheist" site as a referrence holds about as much water and demands about as much consideration as quoting High Times when trying to prove a point about marijuana.The same could be said about the Bible to those of us who consider it a fantastic piece of fiction.By the way, I'm not an atheist, I think there is some sort of diving meaning to the Universe. But I think of it more as a natural process that exists rather than a single cognizant being who wastes his time in this vast universe dealing with a bunch of puny humans on the third rock from Sol.The whole belief in Abraham's god, or any divine, cognizant being who has chosen humans on earth (or even some sect of humans) as His people is extremely arrogant and naive. In the grand scheme of things were nothing but parasites of this planet, using its resources for our own benefit. For all we know, finger nail fungus has these same thoughts and discussions in a way we don't comprehend. Thinking that the fingernail they inhabit is the universe and that they are the chosen fungus.What makes us so important that we even deserve the attention of the creator of the entire universe. Sorry, but I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago, and I see no difference in this fairy tale.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #234 April 12, 2002 Quote Ok, lemme turn your words around and ask you this then -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that? The answer is that God always existed. That is, He has no point of origin but always was. That's the answer and is a necessary belief for God to work out at the source of everything.BTW, there are somethings which are nothings. For example, cold is the absence of heat and darkness the absence of light. This doesn't affect any argument but I thought you might enjoy pondering what it means if anything like I did. hehe-Sinkster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #235 April 12, 2002 QuoteOk, lemme turn your words around and ask you this then -- if God created the universe, then where was He before that? Referring back to my original post, I stated that the belief that the universe exploded by chance from nothing was just as hard to believe as that a divine intelligence created the universe from nothing. I did not claim to know the answer. 'Nothing' before the universe was created means exactly that, 'nothing'. No quarks, no matter, absolutely nothing. Science has not proven that quarks disappear into nothing, only that they cease to be detectable by current technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #236 April 12, 2002 BOOBIES "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #237 April 12, 2002 I snuck boobies in about 40 posts back, in the bottom of a long post. But you can never have too many boobies, as long as they aren't man-boobies.Justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #238 April 12, 2002 QuoteBOOBIES Yeah, and no boobies. Nada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #239 April 12, 2002 " Just tied your own argument in a knot with that comment...."Really, how so?I was just stating that not all of the whys and wherefores of God's attributes are revealed. Faith is the key element throughout the entire Bible as it deals with those things that are unseen. It is defined ' the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.' Hebrews 11:1 then the chapter goes on as a kind of Hall of Fame of Faith . . wonderful passage, you should take a look at it.james Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #240 April 12, 2002 QuoteDeuteronomy 2013 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemiesI don't know. How come you didn't post the rest of the passage?Skydivers...they're just plain cool!Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #241 April 12, 2002 QuoteThe answer is that God always existed. That is, He has no point of origin but always was.But you didn't answer the original question, before He created the universe, where was He?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #242 April 12, 2002 Quote But you didn't answer the original question, before He created the universe, where was He? Who knows? That's like a cartoon figure asking where his creator was before the page he was drawn on was made and inked. How could the 2 dimensional being even hope to comprehend? Some things we will never know this side of eternity. Yet, not knowing this does not invalidate the possibility of God, it just doesn't add anything either.-Sinkster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haeloth 0 #243 April 12, 2002 Ok, pretending that your god existence evidence is logical valid;What is the link between that god and the bible and the rest of the christian mythology? (no circular arguments please..) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #244 April 12, 2002 <<I'm just some kind of stodgy, uptight, and nitpicky professor >>>Just what exactly is wrong with professors? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #245 April 12, 2002 Uh, John, not to nitpick, but you forget the modifier.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #246 April 12, 2002 lol. Honestly, I love my professors. Especially the short old guy from India with a full face beard. hehehe. The dude has so much tenure that he stopped caring what people thought long ago. I *almost* feel sorry for the hapless freshmen and sophomores who somehow end up in his classes!-SinksterSide note after posting and visiting your site: wow nice credentials! that's awesome! You have my respect for what it's worth. One thing that I appreciate about academia and academics--whatever they believe--is their desire and never ending quest for knowledge. A very admirable trait in my opinion. Plus they are good sources to leech info from so I try to hang around them when possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OATSF14 0 #247 April 12, 2002 Even though I disagree with your view of "W", I love this thread. Used to go to the local watering hole after Philosphy Class and continue our discussions. Good times.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apoil 0 #248 April 13, 2002 QuoteUsing an "atheist" site as a referrence holds about as much water and demands about as much consideration as quoting High Times when trying to prove a point about marijuana.About as much water as using the Bible as the sole reference for all things divine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #249 April 13, 2002 Quade, I stopped by work to check this thread (obsessed??) check out the following website, lotta good articles that parallel this debate. It is a Christ-centered website, however, the credentials of the writers are purely scientific . . . they're not a bunch of Bible scholars. Anyway, let me know what you think . . anybody for that matter.http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-idx.htmBlue Skies, James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Milo 0 #250 April 13, 2002 QuoteBy the way, I'm not an atheist, I think there is some sort of diving meaning to the Universe.Yes!!!We were put in this universe to go skydiving!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 10 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
OATSF14 0 #247 April 12, 2002 Even though I disagree with your view of "W", I love this thread. Used to go to the local watering hole after Philosphy Class and continue our discussions. Good times.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #248 April 13, 2002 QuoteUsing an "atheist" site as a referrence holds about as much water and demands about as much consideration as quoting High Times when trying to prove a point about marijuana.About as much water as using the Bible as the sole reference for all things divine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #249 April 13, 2002 Quade, I stopped by work to check this thread (obsessed??) check out the following website, lotta good articles that parallel this debate. It is a Christ-centered website, however, the credentials of the writers are purely scientific . . . they're not a bunch of Bible scholars. Anyway, let me know what you think . . anybody for that matter.http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-idx.htmBlue Skies, James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #250 April 13, 2002 QuoteBy the way, I'm not an atheist, I think there is some sort of diving meaning to the Universe.Yes!!!We were put in this universe to go skydiving!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
