mnischalke 0 #51 April 10, 2003 Actually, I would bet that is certainly an assault weapon, and therefore not an AR-15. That would be an M4, the shorty version of an M16. M4=select-fire=assault weapon. AR-15=semi-auto=black rifle. Okay class, 20-minute break and we'll meet back to talk about black rifles. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stylin 1 #52 April 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteBeretta theres your problem right there. Yea, get a Colt dude, if you can still find one around. You aint gettin' mine!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #53 April 10, 2003 Colt's an option, but Kimber, Springfield, Wilson Combat, Rock River and a whole bunch of others build guns to tolerances much tighter than Colts. Most are still Series 70-based and don't have all that extra Series 80 bullshit inside, and are therefore more reliable. Since most use match-grade barrels as well, they will also (way more often than not) outperform the Colt right out of the box. Hmmmm, come to think of it, didn't Colt cave in to the gun banners and just stop making the 1911? Hmmmm. If yer gonna get a gun, buy one of the above. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #54 April 10, 2003 Class is back!!! I said it was an assault rifle!!!!! How do you know that it is not an AR-15? It is a grainy looking picture, but I know what an AR-15 looks like. I have three in my safe. Go to this address and you will see a pretty close looking rifle and it is labeled as AR-15. http://www.fjvollmer.com/New%20Folder%20(79)/f1.htm Dude, if you have eyes like superman and can see the selector switch that is on the other side of the rifle, you are my new idol. But, as far as just looking at the picture, you can't tell me that it isn't an AR-15. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #55 April 10, 2003 I kinda know what Loudiamond does for a living. He would be holding an M4. Again, you have AR-15s which are semi-automatics and are known as black rifles. They may have the same appearance as a military assault rifle, but without the sear, disconnector, selector, bolt carrier and hammer, it's a black rifle. Catch the difference? mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #56 April 10, 2003 Dude, I don't know LouDiamond. I know that he has a cool ass icon because I complimented it. I didn't have to do that. I also said that it looked like an AR-15. I never said it was for a fact. How am I suppose to know what it is with that small ass picture that far away. I don't know what he does for a living or if he is allowed to have a full auto. Could you or could you not think it was an AR-15 just looking at the small icon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #57 April 10, 2003 Take a deeep breath with me. Ready one two three and inhale................now let it out.I wasn't trying to say anything about what you saw or what you thought he had. I was just trying to explain that you and I and lots of other people have AR-15s and they are not "assault rifles." Assault rifle was a term created by Hitler when the Germans built the MP-43. He called the rifle "Sturmgwehr" which translated means Assault Rifle. The moniker has stuck with full-autos ever since. The gun-banners have tried very hard to make semi-auto black rifles evil, so they adopted the name "assault rifle." Early on in the life of the M16/AR-15, they were simply named AR-15 and were full-auto due to military requirements. When adopted, the AR became the M16. Colt went into production with a civilian model later and reestablished the AR-15 name. Many were built in the full-auto configuration and are fully-transferable class III firearms. The original M4 was called the CAR-15 Commando which became the XM177E2, which was eventually phased out in 1970. The XM4 was successfully tested by the Army in the early 80s and was later procured and designated as the M4 carbine. (There are even 9mm versions out there, but lets not get into that now.) So, yes, I totally agree with you and could easily say he's holding an AR-15 from the avitar. The point being, I hate calling semi-autos assault weapons. Class, any questions? mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feelopen 0 #58 April 10, 2003 I've got one of those too, and have also shot the sorriest excuses for ammunition through it until I'm poor. As far as reliability (number of rounds fired before malfunction) I'd rate it the same as my Sig Sauer brand new, after both had fired 10,000 rounds better than the sig, and after more than 5,000 rounds without cleaning, both start screwing up bad. The first thing to wear out on my 92FS was the spring. The Sig still hasn't worn out any pieces (~15,000 rounds) but requires frequent cleaning. In accuracy, it's hands down to my Sig, while I can group 'em tight with the beretta, I do the same with my Sig 20 yards farther away. So: if you just like plinking and mass firing, go with the beretta - it's a good range toy. If you want to save you life and only shoot your weapon for occasional practice - get something that's got a tighter chamber, it'll be more accurate and as long as it's clean and you've got good ammo - reliability is fine. Take all this with a pound of salt - I'm not a cop, military or anything else - I just like shooting handguns. Craig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #59 April 10, 2003 Teacher, I am living in the present. Nowadays, they are known as assault rifles. I am a college boy, not a gun historian. So I called them something that in todays society people no what I am saying. I didn't know I was going to get a history lesson by some one old enough to be my Dad. So, since we strayed so far from the original thread, it may be time to start a thread devoted to black, brown, orange, and yellow rifles. One last thing, was it a cool picture of me or not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #60 April 10, 2003 bwwwahahahahahaaaa. old enough to be your dad? I am 32. How old would that make you? Didn't spend much time in college either. I just don't like the term, ya know? That term perpetuates fear of something as lethal as any semi-auto hunting rifle. I can't get behind a catch phrase a bunch of people are using with the specific intent of taking my toys away. Mikie get mad with no toys. Mikie get very angry...Next time yer in VA lemme know, We can go shoot, then go jump out of planes. You know--the finer things in life. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #61 April 10, 2003 Well hell. . . .I am glad we cleared some shit up. By the way, I was just giving you shit about the whole Dad thing. I don't claim to know it all, but I enjoy talking with fellow gun owners and skydivers. Atleast everything is just jolly good now. Anyway, the same invitation applies for you. If you are ever around El Paso or Huntsville, TX we can shoot up some shit. Ammo is on me. Oh yeah, and fuck those guys who want to take away our toys. I'm nineteen by the way. I know....Young, Dumb, and full of .........!!!!!! You have a good night now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #62 April 10, 2003 Just to clear things up. I am firing a M4 with the SOFMOD kit(minus silencer), and yes, it is full auto. If my historic memory serves me correctly, the very FIRST weapons produced in the M-16 line were produced by Armorlite. These were the early versions of the M-16 that had no forward assist and had some issues early on during their use. The AR-15 was a civilian model number which is still refered to today to describe anything that remotely looks like an M-16 by those not in the know(see media types). Armorlite eventually lost the Gov't contract and the weapon line was picked up by Colt in the late 60's ,early 70's and produced several different versions to include the famous COLT CAR(carbine) 15 before changing to the M-16 nomenclature for the evolving weapon system which is still used today. Many different models, some as old as the A-1 models that some units still have or have broken out of cosmoline are still in use. 10 years ago I actually saw FNG's show up with brand new A-1s still in the plastic shipping bag and covered in cosmoline from old war stocks. It is evident from the news that not everybody has received the newer version(M-4) and still use the A-2 models. That is a down and dirty history. I believe there is actually 7-8 different models of this weapons system from the 1st one to the present day version."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #63 April 10, 2003 LouD, I never wanted all the attention. I just said AR-15 because that is what it looks like. How can I tell from the picture being so far away? I know AR-15's are the civilian version of the M-16 etc. I didn't know what or who you were, I was just complimenting on the picture and pissed on some shoes along the way. I know enough about the weapons that I have invested in, but I am still a 19 year old college boy. Age and experience matters. I would like to think that I am cool and own assault rifles, but I can't do that anymore. Now I have to say that I own a "Black rifle." Fuck that. I thought that since I ASSAULT stuff with my rifle, it was an ASSAULT rifle. My mistake. Anyway, you still have a cool icon. I'll try and send you the picture I sent your pal. It will help me get back my ego. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #64 April 10, 2003 Quote I like that tupperware comment. I will get my girlfriend a Glock someday for the kitchen. That's really damned funny! --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #65 April 10, 2003 QuoteColt's an option, but Kimber, Springfield, Wilson Combat, Rock River and a whole bunch of others build guns to tolerances much tighter than Colts. Most are still Series 70-based and don't have all that extra Series 80 bullshit inside, and are therefore more reliable. Since most use match-grade barrels as well, they will also (way more often than not) outperform the Colt right out of the box. Hmmmm, come to think of it, didn't Colt cave in to the gun banners and just stop making the 1911? They made a limited edition production of 4000 back in 2001. From what I've heard/read, the quality is outstanding and much better than previous production runs. Many people who swore off Colt for other manufactuerers' 1911 style guns have said it's the best 1911 ever made. This is all hearsay though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #66 April 10, 2003 If you're only 32 I'm easily old enough to be your Dad. At any rate, getting back to the M-16, I remember looking at several different versions that preceded the AR-15. Several were used by the Air Force and didn't have a forward assist etc. I recall about seven or eight different versions that we looked at in SF weapons training that led up to the development of the AR-15. Today I wouldn't mind buying a M-16. I always enjoyed shooting them. The new and improved models have my interest, but they cost way too much money. I'm wondering about how a Ruger Mini-14 would compare. They should be quite a bit cheaper.......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #67 April 10, 2003 OK,back to my problem just for a second here,does the firearm have to be sent back or can the locking block be replaced by me ?I have been advised both ways here. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #68 April 10, 2003 Quote Quote Dave, can you give an explanation to this a little better. It's usually that when you pull the trigger, the gun goes boom. Correct, but it's not that simple. If you hold the gun too limply, the receiver may move too far back with the recoil. There is then too little relative movement between the receiver and the slide, resulting in the spent casing not being properly ejected. And then when you pull the trigger again, the gun goes *silence* I love my S&W 5906. It's heavy. Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it does not work I can always hit the dude with itjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #69 April 10, 2003 Quote I love my S&W 5906. It's heavy. Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it does not work I can always hit the dude with it I can do the same with my Lodge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #70 April 10, 2003 Quote OK,back to my problem just for a second here,does the firearm have to be sent back or can the locking block be replaced by me ?I have been advised both ways here. dropdeded ............................................................... I'm sure you could probably replace this yourself if you had the right part. Sometimes it's hard to remember how to put everything back together though. One trick I learned in the military is to lay each part out in order. So if you took one part off first, lay it down first, 2nd, and so on in order. Then put everything back together in reverse order. When you get done hopefully there are no extra parts. Most weapons have pins you can push out to disassemble them. If it looks too tricky take it to a gun smith......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYEVOUT 0 #71 April 10, 2003 Quotedoes the firearm have to be sent back or can the locking block be replaced by me ?I have been advised both ways here. I'm at work, so I can't look it up for you - but I deal with an outfit called Brownells, they have a website, but I have the BIG book. They can usually provide you with the parts, and, if necessary - the advice you need. (I don't pay people to fix my shit) ----------------=8^)---------------------- "I think that was the wrong tennis court." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #72 April 10, 2003 Brownells doesn't sell Beretta parts. Try Langdon Tactical. They have a Beretta locking block parts kit for $70. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #73 April 10, 2003 >>I like that tupperware comment. I will get my girlfriend a Glock someday for the kitchen.<< When yhour Glock gets REALLY nasty, take it all the way apart and put the frame in the dishwasher on the no heat dry setting. When it comes out, your mags will drop free again. BMcD... ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #74 April 10, 2003 LouDiamond! you never even mentioned anything about that piss-poor batman shot I posted on the weekend numbers. Bastard!Anyway, AR stands for Armalite Rifle. Civilian versions of the AR were introduced by Colt in the 60s and were called the Colt AR-15 Sporter. The Black Rifle: M16 Retrospective by By R. Blake Stevens and Edward C. Ezell is the definitive work on the AR-15. From it's roots as the AR-10 (.308) designed by former Marine Eugene Stoner, through the mid-90s, this book has it all. Another great pair of reads are online at Birth of the AR and Evolution of the AR. If you want to see who the original Lou Diamond was, go here. He was a certifiable badass. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #75 April 10, 2003 You're gonna love this: Check the price in the Brownell's catalog. To the left is a wierd set of numbers that say 176XX99 or something like that. It's the code for the wholesale price $176.99 That's the price armorer's pay. Like me. Who's your buddy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
