O'Reilly article on Jean Chretien

[cgross 1]

Here is Bill O'reilly's latest article. I know many people don't like him, but it is a good read, and it raises many questions. It may raise some anger from canadians on this forum, but read it close...He defends canadians but not their leader. It does seem that a few "officials" from up north have made a few comments publicly over the past year that have been a bit harsh. While I respect other peoples opinions, and feel they have a right to voice them, they need to remember that everything they say has consequence. Just like me posting this.

here we go....



Oh, Canada, what the heck is going on?

In a staggering display of in-your-face defiance, the Canadian government now says it will not turn over any members of Saddam Hussein's crew, should they eventually show up in Canada, to the USA - including the evil dictator himself!

Canadian Minister of Defense John McCallum bluntly told the world that his government would only give Saddam to the World Court in the Hague.

This non-provoked belligerence comes after Prime Minister Jean Chretien gleefully pilloried the Bush administration over fighting Iraq every chance he got.

Chretien and his cohorts have made no secret of their disdain for Mr. Bush and the Canadian press has generally been brutal to America in portraying the war.

In response, President Bush has cancelled his May trip to Ottawa and it would be wise not to send him an autographed picture of the Montreal Canadian hockey team anytime soon.

That's because Montreal fans recently booed the National Anthem before a match with the New York Islanders causing some angst among American hockey fans who are not generally known for being too accepting of that kind of display.

But it doesn't end there.

When a group of Boston kids went up to Montreal to play in a peewee hockey tournament, they were not only taunted by the Canadian kids, but also by the referees. Eh?

My question is this:

Do the Canadian people have any idea how close they are to serious pain here?

Canada's economy is utterly dependent on the USA and Americans pump more than 10-billion dollars directly into it every year.

Nine million of us cross the northern border more than 40-million times annually and we buy lots of stuff.

And that stuff is heavily taxed by the tax and spend Canadian government. So what happens if we all emulate Mr. Bush and just say no to the land of snow?

Canada's economy melts, that's what happens.

A loosely organized boycott of French goods by some Americans has brought immediate pain to the wine and travel industries in that country, according to business titans in Paris.

One analyst told me that French wine consumption in the USA is down ten percent and travel to Paris is off by more than 20-percent with almost record low bookings for the upcoming summer.

Since the French economy was growing at just one percent before Jacques Chirac began his quest to embarrass America, a French recession is now likely.

If the same economic pressure were applied to Canada, the results would be much more intense.

Simply put, if Americans cut back doing business with Canadians that country could go into a depression.

And herein lies the problem. Most Americans are not mean people and don't want to hurt working class Canadians.

It is Chretien who's the problem and he's out of office in less than a year. But, there comes a point when enough is enough and Canadians should understand that storm clouds are gathering to the south.

Humiliating American kids in a hockey rink is simply not acceptable.

Thumbing your nose at 127 dead Americans in Iraq by making defiant statements about where Saddam should be extradited is not a wise policy.

Millions of Americans are beginning to realize that their buying power is not only a democratic choice, but can be used as a weapon against people who are hostile to us.

No American is under any obligation to buy any product, foreign or domestic.

I'm sure the Molson beer people understand that Budweiser fits in the cooler as well.

So I am giving the haughty Jean Chretien one more chance because I have always liked and respected the Canadian people.

I am not going to travel north this summer but I'm not boycotting Canadian products as I am with France.

But hear this Mr. Prime Minister:

One more cheap shot, one more unnecessary taunt, one more insult directed at the USA by you or your minions, and I'll give you a very accurate long range forecast.

It's gonna get mighty cold mighty fast west of the St. Lawrence.

[redtwiga 0]

What's wrong with giving war criminals to the Hague instead of the United States?

[joboulay 0]

If i understand well, after Iraq it's gonna be Syria and then Canada... Who's next?

I jump, I live, I love. Ourson #1 Ordre des Ours Polaires Volants

[kiltboy 0]

Absolutely nothing wrong with handing Saddam to The Hague in my opinion.

The alternative is to try him in Iraq as the majority of his cimes were committed against his own people. Doubt that would happen so trying him for crimes against humanity in an independant body would work fine with me.

David

[cgross 1]

Nothing... I think it is a good idea.
But he made a point of saying we will not give them to the US. That was unnessesary. He could have just said we will surrender them to the Hauge.

It is just a continuation of anti-americanism from the Canadian government. I am with Bill on this though... I am not boycotting Canada, because they have not gone out of their way to disrupt US policies like france did. But Comments made publicly by the Canadian (parlament/government) have been blatant and rude lately.

[redtwiga 0]

The comment was in response to the US making a specific demand of Canada; therefore addressing the US in the response was not inappropriate. The idea of boycotting Canada is ridiculous. We need their natural resources. Finally, what the referee did to those kids is wrong, if it actually happened, which I doubt. But wrongs happen everywhere, every day. That particular bigot, who held children accountable for the actions of a country with which he disagrees, should be dealt with. Holding a country accountable for his actions is equally wrong.

[jfields 0]

Quote

It is just a continuation of anti-americanism from the Canadian government. I am with Bill on this though... I am not boycotting Canada, because they have not gone out of their way to disrupt US policies like france did. But Comments made publicly by the Canadian (parlament/government) have been blatant and rude lately.

I see it a little differently.

I think our own treatment of just about every other country is finally coming back to bite us. Sadly, I think a lot of it is deserved. The concept of our boycott power changing the way other countries see us is pretty shortsighted, because we need their trade too. If we get all bent out of shape at all the other countries and stop buying their products, our own fragile economy would be hurt when they return the favor. And there are more of them than there are of us. Something to consider in both trade and war. Yes, we can basically do what we want with Iraq, but at what price? We might be the biggest bully on the playground, but when all the little kids team up, they could still kick our ass.

[Push 0]

While I agree with you, I also think that a little civility goes a long way. Our current government is mostly a copy of a government from some 10 years ago, and the PM is not very decisive. The press here has taken a stand against the US, and while I'm not certain who's the chicken and who's the egg here, the people are turning where the press is going. Seems to me that our PM just has his nose in the wind. Keep in mind that all this means is that our government is trying it's best to represent what the people are currently thinking.

What I find really sad is the public taunting of Americans as a group. This is nothing more than a stereotype. One day, after the dust settles, some people are going to be very ashamed of themselves.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[Schroeder 0]

Don't know if this has been posted here or not but I got it in my email a few days ago, and since this has to do with us canadians, thought it might fit in here somehow:

Silver Donald Cameron is a Canadian writer who
lives in D'Escousse, Ile Madame, Nova Scotia. He was writing in response to
a speech given by the American ambassador to Canada, who gave all Canadians
a lecture on "friendship". Pretty well written and well researched.


Ambassador Paul Cellucci
Embassy of the United States of America,
490 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario

Dear Mr. Ambassador:

Your recent remarks about Canada's policy with respect to Iraq were
inaccurate, inappropriate and offensive.

Prime Minister Chretien is maintaining a delicate balance between U.S.
pressure and Canadian opinion-a familiar position for Canadian prime
ministers-and he will not tell you to go pound sand. But someone should.

Fundamentally, you argue that the United States would instantly come to the
aid of Canada in an emergency, and Canada should therefore participate in
your ill-advised attack on Iraq. "There is no security threat to Canada
that the United States would not be ready, willing and able to help with,"
you are quoted as saying. "There would be no debate. There would be no
hesitation. We would be there for Canada, part of our family."

Codswallop. And that's being diplomatic.

The primary threat to Canadian security has always been the United States.
A monument in Quebec honours my earliest Canadian ancestor for repelling an
invasion from your home state of Massachusetts in 1690. The very first
instance of military co-operation among the 13 colonies occurred in 1745
under the leadership of James Shirley, your predecessor as governor of
Massachusetts, whose army invaded Nova Scotia and captured the Fortress of
Louisbourg.

Thirty years later, during the American Revolution, your privateers sacked
our ports. We were at war once more in 1812-15. The birth of Canada in 1867
was prompted by fears of a U.S. invasion. That's why our railroad runs
along the Gulf of St. Lawrence, far from the U.S. border.

Do you remember Manifest Destiny, the 1840s U.S. doctrine which held that
your country had a God-given mission to rule all of North America?

Do you remember "Fifty-four-forty or fight," the slogan that rallied
Americans to threaten an invasion in 1902 over the Alaska boundary?

Yours is the only country that has ever invaded ours, and it would do so
again in a wink if it thought its interests here were seriously threatened.

And how does your sentimental mantra of perpetual willingness to spring to
our assistance apply to the First World War, which we entered in 1914,
while you stayed out for three years? We went to war against Hitler in
1939, while you were moved to join your sister democracies only after the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor two years later. A million Canadians fought
in the Second World War, and 45,000 died. We need no lectures from
Americans about the defence of liberty and democracy.

Nevertheless, despite the strains of our history, we are probably as close
as any two nations in the world. Many Canadians-I am one - have family
members who are American citizens. Our two nations fought together not only
in two World Wars, but also to repel the invasions of South Korea in 1949
and Kuwait in 1991. And when great catastrophe strikes without warning, our
people have indeed been there for each other. As governor of Massachusetts,
you must have been present at the lighting of the Christmas tree in Boston
each year-an annual gift from Nova Scotia to commemorate the immediate and
massive assistance of Massachusetts after the Halifax Explosion in 1917.

Our chance to reciprocate came on Sept. 11, 2001, when Canadian communities
took in, on an instant's notice, 40,000 passengers from U.S. planes forced
down by the terrorist attacks. Halifax alone hosted 7,200. We housed them
in our homes and schools and churches, fed them and
comforted them and treated them as family. We probably gave more immediate
and practical assistance to Americans than any other country.

Yet when your president later thanked nations for their help, he did not
mention Canada.

The Iraq conflict, however, is not an unforeseen disaster, but a deliberate
choice. Your president has squandered a worldwide outpouring of sympathy
and solidarity in less than two years-an astounding diplomatic debacle.
Your own remarks, with their dark hints of economic revenge, are entirely
consistent with the Bush administration's policy of diplomacy by bullying,
bribing and threatening.

A huge body of opinion, even in the U.S. and Britain, judges this war to be
illegal, reckless and irrelevant to the fight against terrorism. Your
government appears to have forgotten Osama bin Laden, and not to have
noticed that the Sept. 11 terrorists were mostly Saudi, not Iraqi. They
lived not in Baghdad but in Hamburg and San Diego. The Iraq campaign is a
side-show, a grudge match, a distraction. It will breed more martyrs, and
more terrorists.

Good citizens - and good friends - oppose bad policies. By telling you the
truth, they strive to save you from folly. They may be mistaken, but they
are not your enemies. That is the message you should take back to the White
House, whether or not there is anyone there who will understand it.

Sincerely,

Silver Donald Cameron

If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me?

[cgross 1]

yes we need their trade, but we are at a trade deficit when it come to Canada and France. No one is yet calling for a buycott of Canada though.

[cgross 1]

I am right there with you. In response to someone saying the peewee hockey team incident in Motreal may not have happened... It did. THe team was from Canton, MA my home town, and the local papers reported on it. I do not dobt it. Also at the Islanders game broadcast here in NY it was evident the crowd was booing the natioanl anthem.

I understand what you are saying, but I also remember some senator of something from Canada several months back openly calling Bush an Idiot. Representing the country or not, public officials shouldn't be making open comments like that. That is just bad politics.

[cgross 1]

Well, let's face the fact that Canada is a socialist society with government run media much like england. I don't mean that as a bad thing, it is just a fact. With that being said I choose to disregaurd some of the opinions that writer has, such as an "Illegal" war. It was legal under a 91 cease fire agreement.

But that is getting awayfrom the point. We never (I never) asked people to agree with the US. Germany didn't, China didn't etc... But they didn't go out of their way to make poor political statement against the US. I think your PM is just sympathetic to France. IMO.

[Push 0]

Quote

I understand what you are saying, but I also remember some senator of something from Canada several months back openly calling Bush an Idiot. Representing the country or not, public officials shouldn't be making open comments like that. That is just bad politics.

Yep, I remember that also. IIRC, he was forced to apologize, and rightly so.

I still think that there's nothing wrong with opposing someone's policy. Nothing wrong with appropriate, decisive action. However, there's everything wrong with calling them names, booing their national symbols and making their children cry. All the countries are partaking in it, Canadians, French, Americans, etc. It's the 21st century folks, let's start acting like it.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[redtwiga 0]

Er, here's an example of the media being horrible. Funny, but horrible:

This was in the Toronto Star , credited to comedian Rick Mercer.

_______________________________________



Nostra maxima culpa

"On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry.

"I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron, but it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all, it's not like you actually elected him.

"I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees that you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own.

"I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defence, I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours.

"I'm sorry we burnt down your White House during the War of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's very nice.

"I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer, but we Feel Your Pain.

"I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you wanna have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons.

"And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way, which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this.

"We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with."

[cgross 1]

already read it ... someone posted it awhile back. I still don't see the humor, but I have never seen that show. Nothing better to do in the cold I guess (that was a joke)

Seriously though. Americas do not dislike canadians, but we are getting a sense lately that canadians dislike americans. They are becoming quite vocal about it. All I am saying is.. we don't have a problem with you voicing your concerns, but becareful... at some point we will get sick of hearing it.

[Schroeder 0]

Canadians, on the whole, have no issue with the american public. Our concerns, if I may speak for the concerned, lay with your government, and the stances, direction it's taking. As a by-product you're seeing some canadians directing their frustration at the american public because they (the americans) are seen as supporting (of course) their government. In the same way that you look at us, and say, "sympathetic to france" and lump us together, some canadians are taking the same liberty, as foolish as it is, and treating the american public with the same regard they reserve for their government.

This "yes yes, sure we'll humour you regarding your opinions, but push it long enough and you'd better watch it" attitude that's cropping up is ridiculous and totally opposite to the kind of society (global) that we're all shooting for.

If I ventured in the slipstream; Between the via-ducts of your dreams.......could you find me?

[jlmiracle 7]

I've met alot of Canadian's and so far they all rock! I have not had the pleasure of meeting Jean Chretien and I don't believe he speaks for all Canadian's like I would hope the rest of world would believe our politians DON'T speak for all american's. I don't care much for alot of our politicians and am still proud to be an American.

BTW - I like the Canadian National Anthem better than ours (even though I don't know all the words).

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[redtwiga 0]

Quote

Canadians, on the whole, have no issue with the american public.

Um, I might beg to differ. I'm in the awkward situation of having dual citizenship (US/Canada), family all over the board, grew up in both countries and have very divided loyalties. My experience from living in Canada was that (no not ALL Canadians felt this way) by and large, Americans were looked down upon as kind of stupid and sheep-like and often unnecessarily violent.

[Schroeder 0]

violence aside, then.

[AndyMan 7]

What I found interesting about this read is that the facts are generally correct, but what is completely missing is context.

I agree completely with Canada, Hussein should be tried by The Hague. This is afterall why the world created the permanent war crimes court there. It's an embarassment that the US hasn't ratified the war crimes treaty. There should be no debate here. Hussein should be tried in The Hague.

As for the Canadian press and government piloring Bush over his war attitude, thank god someone did. The American press and the democrats haven't said a thing under the fear of being persecuted for "not supporting our troups". If the same had happened in the 70's, the US would still be in Vietnam.

As for the cancelled trip, both Powell and Bush say that nobody should read anything into it, and the trip is reschuled for the fall.

As to the suggestion that Canada is close to "serious pain", unless he's refering to military action, I see little pain. The US needs Canadian lumber and Oil far more then Canada needs anything from the US. Even now, with the US economy in the shits, the Canadian economy is steaming ahead, interest rates at 5 year highs, the dollar approaching 10 year highs, and unemployment at 10 year lows. If the US wants to play a trade war, they will lose.

The suggestion that the french boycott has had any effect at all is completely false. The price or french wine has actually gone up in the last few monthes, because of an especially tasty batch of Bordeau. O'Reilly should really do some research before writing editorials.

When Canada quickly came to the aid of the US after 9/11, both with logistical support imediately following, and military support later, the US rewarded them with some of the highest tarrifs on lumber exports ever. The US clearly was taking Canada's support for granted, and they needed a wake-up call. If the US wants support from other countries, then they need to start offering their own support to those countries. That has not been forth-comming.

What is sad is that people are making the mistake of blaming the people when the fault lies in the politicians. Like Rick Mercer said, it's not like they actually elected Bush anyways.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Americans were looked down upon as kind of stupid and sheep-like and often unnecessarily violent.

That's why me and my friends like to get liquored up and beat up Canadians, because of attitudes like that.

[Marz 0]

Don't get me wrong, I love Americans, I just can't eat whole one!

_________________________________________
Did I just kill another thread?

[redtwiga 0]

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Americans were looked down upon as kind of stupid and sheep-like and often unnecessarily violent.

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That's why me and my friends like to get liquored up and beat up Canadians, because of attitudes like that.

Snrk. You're lucky the Canadian in me recognizes "irony"...

[SpeedRacer 1]

Important tip for the non-Americans to keep in mind: Bill O'Reilly is a renowned asshole on FOX TV. Most assholes are amateurs, but O'Reilly has managed to make a whole career out of it.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[racer42 0]

O'Reilly is such an arrogant ass. Canada can do what it wants they're a a big grown up country.

L.A.S.T. #24
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