Guest #76 April 28, 2003 Quote Quote I wasn't suggesting that there was any deception by the WFFC; only that the planes in question were advertised as 'confirmed' but never showed. That's a fact, nothing more. They were confirmed...I've got the 'were not coming' letters from both planes since the insurance people won't let us if you would like me to post. I only get defensive about this since I'm the one who catches a lot of flack for them being on freefall.com. Unfortunately, most people make their judgements without all the facts. There are things that are out of the WFFCs control. This unfortunately was one of them. BTW, the 727 was owned by Connie Kalitta (sp?) and he was interested in the whole prospect of it since he's a speed freak in his own right... You spelled Kalitta's name right, and if you or Deke want any backup about the 727 no-show, please contact me. Insurance companies...geez, it isn't like it's a frickin' Space Shuttle launch! What really gets me furious is how much time and money went into getting the 727 ready (seat belts on the deck, etc.) only to have the insurance company wuss out at literally the last minute. It's too bad there can't be a clause in the contract that makes the insurer liable for the expenses incurred by cancellation! And for others reading this, please take note: those who are critical of Deke because the 727 didn't appear at the WFFC have absolutely no idea what a monumental task it really is to get such a plane to show in the first place. We're not talking about a Pitts Special here - this isn't penny-ante poker. Big money is at stake, on the order of millions, as in we're-not-kidding millions. Add liability issues and whuffo insurers in a litiguous society, and perhaps you'll begin to appreciate the scope of the problem. And those who feel so strongly that a 727 should be at the WFFC, perhaps they'd be willing to provide it themselves. "The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #77 April 28, 2003 Quote It's too bad there can't be a clause in the contract that makes the insurer liable for the expenses incurred by cancellation! I thought the insurance was never lined up in the first place. That was the impression I got - they assumed they could get it insured, but nothing was in writing. If that's the case, I'm sure Don won't make that mistake again - get the policy first, then advertise as having the plane! it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #78 April 28, 2003 Quote Quote It's too bad there can't be a clause in the contract that makes the insurer liable for the expenses incurred by cancellation! I thought the insurance was never lined up in the first place. That was the impression I got - they assumed they could get it insured, but nothing was in writing. If that's the case, I'm sure Don won't make that mistake again - get the policy first, then advertise as having the plane! That is precisely what he did. The insurance company changed its mind after committing!!!"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #79 April 28, 2003 Quote It's too bad there can't be a clause in the contract that makes the insurer liable for the expenses incurred by cancellation! Kirlin had every right to have his attorneys write up a new contract with that clause in there. He had every right to search for a company which would do that. Guess what? You won't find any! I don't know why it's a big shock for everyone to have heard that the insurance company canceled. They're finicky like that! They'll cancel anything for any reason that they want. If they saw the Martini Shots video of drunken skydivers, they may have decided giving them a jet to use for the day was a really bad idea. In special circumstances without really credibly data to go by or vasts amount of people getting jets for skydivers (to make the losses more "normal" rather than catastrophic), a cancellation doesn't shock me at all. Adding on...sorry to hijack your thread, Jess! Now, back to the discussion on how to juggle the multiple initiations you will be doing. Also, we need to prepare the organizers for the many jumps that we plan on doing with them!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #80 April 28, 2003 Quote That is precisely what he did. The insurance company changed its mind after committing!!! Ah.. ok.. just the way the "we're not coming" letters they passed around were worded, it sounded like there was never anything signed in the first place. Why doesn't Don just buy his own jet? it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #81 April 28, 2003 Hey Sunshine, wanna be my mommy too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #82 April 28, 2003 Quote Quote That is precisely what he did. The insurance company changed its mind after committing!!! Ah.. ok.. just the way the "we're not coming" letters they passed around were worded, it sounded like there was never anything signed in the first place. Why doesn't Don just buy his own jet? Well-heeled as he is, I don't think Deke has a spare $1.4 million laying around...And even if he did, there's still the task of getting insurance..."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #83 April 28, 2003 Quote Hey Sunshine, wanna be my mommy too? Hrm....are you bottle fed, or still breast feeding? ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaGimp 0 #84 April 28, 2003 Did i hear bring green bottles....there are many diffrent green bottles. Also are we all gona have our own tent city by the DZ.com tent? I need prime location since i have yet to attend a WFFC and i wont know ANYONE....cept for Sunshine is she comes back to Raeford in July. And SM1 did say he would be there for the swoop meet at the least."Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #85 April 28, 2003 Quote Hrm....are you bottle fed, or still breast feeding? I am still breast feeding, but may be able to switch to bottles by the end of WFFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #86 April 28, 2003 I'll be at Raeford in July... JCeman had talked about getting a big tent for us again this year. BUT, he needs people to help out on some of the expense since its not cheap. I did my share last year and plan on doing better in person this year. PM him for details. Tent city is the place to be! DZ living is the life for me! Planes spreading out so far and wide, keep Cessna's and give me that landing site Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #87 April 28, 2003 Quote i wont know ANYONE....cept for Sunshine is she comes back to Raeford in July. Of course i'm coming back in July. Me and Phreezone are doing the road trip again. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #88 April 28, 2003 Quote and give me that landing site You mean the runway? I hear that makes a great landing site. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaGimp 0 #89 April 28, 2003 QuoteJCeman had talked about getting a big tent for us again this year. BUT, he needs people to help out on some of the expense since its not cheap. PM him for details. Yes i already PMed him and he wanted to wait till closer to the time before takeing collections. But i will aswell be helping out with the Big tent this year. One more question....how much money should i bring....i know im gona jump till im broke but i need to know how much is a good boggie bank total."Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaGimp 0 #90 April 28, 2003 I think i may have to freakfly at least a little bit before i get there too.....what yall think? At least a sit so i can partake in all the fun not just some."Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #91 April 28, 2003 QuoteThey were confirmed...I've got the 'were not coming' letters from both planes since the insurance people won't let us if you would like me to post. I only get defensive about this since I'm the one who catches a lot of flack for them being on freefall.com. Unfortunately, most people make their judgements without all the facts. There are things that are out of the WFFCs control. I think many or most of us know that insurance was the reason the a/c weren't there, however, the advertising is entirely under WFFC control. You shouldn't advertise just because the owners say the aircraft is available. You know there's more to it than that. 2002 wasn't the first year an aircraft was pulled because of insurance. Don't advertise the plane until ALL the paperwork is confirmed. That said, the Jet/Connie/C130 aren't the only reasons to go to WFFC. I've been 5 times, and lucky enough they were years the 727 was there and the Connie for 1 of them. Even without them it's a great event. Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #92 April 28, 2003 QuoteQuoteIt's to damn hot in Illinois in August. They should have moved that boogie to Spokane or somewhere else out here in the NW. I'm from the St Louis area and my relatives are still back there, to hot!!!! Unfortunately, Spokane is not centrally located. Nor is the weather entirely reliable. Illinois usually gets a good storm or two during the boogie, but that only seems to kill a day or two at most. (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #93 April 28, 2003 QuoteOne more question....how much money should i bring....i know im gona jump till im broke but i need to know how much is a good boggie bank total. Bring enough to support my lemon shake up habit!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #94 April 28, 2003 QuoteDon't advertise the plane until ALL the paperwork is confirmed. Both planes had letters from their repective insurers stating that they had been given final approval to go forward as they would be insured for the event. The insurer changed the rules at the last minute. The paperwork was confirmed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #95 April 28, 2003 QuoteBring enough to support my lemon shake up habit!! Bring a spare roll of toilet paper too just in case the port-o-stinkers run out again. This should be corrected this year, but better to be prepared then not... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #96 April 28, 2003 QuoteQuoteDon't advertise the plane until ALL the paperwork is confirmed. Both planes had letters from their repective insurers stating that they had been given final approval to go forward as they would be insured for the event. The insurer changed the rules at the last minute. The paperwork was confirmed. What Michael said. Every "i" was dotted, every "t" was crossed. The insurers chickened out AFTER giving the green light. That's not Deke's fault! Deke, Beth, Mike, et al can hold their heads up, because as soon as the bad news was known, Deke announced it, and made sure copies of the insurance company's letter were passed around. The insurance company bears the SOLE blame for the jet no-show, NOT Deke and/or the WFFC. I can't believe that after being screwed that way last year, Deke is going to try to push the 727 boulder up the hill again. I sure as heck wouldn't, not after being treated like that!"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #97 April 28, 2003 QuoteYes, it will be nice having another bumpy brother there to help. I'm so there, dude. Quotep.s. if i can go we could have a special birthday "party" in my rv...... Is it the Mystery Machine? Will there be Scooby Snacks?Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #98 April 28, 2003 Quotep.s. if i can go we could have a special birthday "party" in my rv...... ----------------------------------------------------------- Is it the Mystery Machine? Will there be Scooby Snacks? There will be lots of twirly cookies!! And Dave has agreed not to pass out with the motor running... ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #99 April 28, 2003 As I understand it from Cecil Terry (the mechanic for the 727, and an ocassional skydiver), the aircraft owner considered bringing the aircraft in - uninsured - and fly jumpers, anyhow. The insurance company supposedly shot that down, saying they'd cancel all policies altogether if they even flew the 727 into the event. I heard excuses about 9-11 and other sorts of nonsense, but there are plenty of aircraft flying jumpers without the liability insurance these people were looking for - it's just not available. From what Don said at the post-Convention meetings, at any price. He was holding out hope some of the underwriters fro South America would be able to help us out, but I don't know how that has panned out, as yet. Don wants a 727 on the ramp as much, or more, than any of us. If anyone can get one there - he can. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #100 April 28, 2003 QuoteDon wants a 727 on the ramp as much, or more, than any of us. If anyone can get one there - he can. Hear, f*in' hear!"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
