Documents found in Iraq show that Saddam Hussein took steps to protect the reputation of a British legislator

[Genie 0]

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What would be bad is if all that has happened is that one regime has been swapped for another to come in the near future.

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As long as we keep the un out of everything but relief effort I don;t see this happening.

One of the people proposed by the US admin is a guy who has an outstanding warrent against him in Jordan for embezzlement IIRC. How will the UN staying out of this help the iraqi arabs to accept that they will now be led by a thief and the other arab nations will have to deal with him - do you think doing this all by the ideas of the US is more likely to lead to a peace?
Say the UN stays out of it - except for cleaning up and trying to save peoples lives of course - how does that matter when the US tries to impose a secular government on a country that has had enough of secularism and wants an islamic regime ? Im missing your point on this one Body Pilot - whats the UN got to do with it - apart from of course MAYBE being able to act as a neutral body and smooth things over a little bit?
Genie

[vmsfreaky1 0]

Sorry to butt in, however i'd like to play devils advocate here....

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Agents of terror, your going to feel our pain.

The agents of terror as you put it, have felt pain, usually at the hands of the U.S, either directly through U.S military action, or through money supplied to the local despot who promptly used that money to buy weapons to kill them and their family.

I think more thought should go into this "conflict" rather than a simple you bad you die mentality....the adversarial way of thinking hasn't worked for justice and it wont resolve this war on terror.

Compromise and understanding will.

I hope those in power and those who vote for them understand a little about history before they go about their neo-colonial ways, it's a lesson that has already been learned by old world powers.

I feel we are living in very interesting times, apparently thats a chinese curse...can anyone confirm that?

Laterz

[bodypilot90 0]

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I think more thought should go into this "conflict" rather than a simple you bad you die mentality....the adversarial way of thinking hasn't worked for justice and it wont resolve this war on terror.

The way you deal with a rattle snake is to cut off the head, That's what we did in Iraq. What happened all of a sudden Iran wants to play kissy kissy. N korea wants to talk. (same old bullshit though) Arafat hands off real power. Something to note, Iraq was the largest military among the arab nations. The outcome will drive home the point that "you fuck with us, you are going to die"

[PhillyKev 0]

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The outcome will drive home the point that "you fuck with us, you are going to die"

Unfortunately I think the point it will drive home is, "you fuck with us on a traditional military battlefield, you are going to lose, better come up with another option"....hmmm, let's see...hey, why don't we try terrorism, after all they can't protect against that all the time and it really demoralizes them. Yeah, lets stick with that instead of this stupid battlefield stuff.

[billvon 3,120]

>"you fuck with us, you are going to die"

The 9/11 terrorists said the same thing. And you know what? They were right. We can kill them, they can kill us - and that can go on essentially forever. Unless genocide is your thing, a different solution might be in order.

[Snowflake 0]

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The way you deal with a rattle snake is to cut off the head, That's what we did in Iraq. What happened all of a sudden Iran wants to play kissy kissy. N korea wants to talk. (same old bullshit though) Arafat hands off real power. Something to note, Iraq was the largest military among the arab nations. The outcome will drive home the point that "you fuck with us, you are going to die"

You forgot if we want your shit you will die or we support your dictator so you will die or we don't like drugs so you will die.

Up until now you have hidden that bloodthirsty side but I always knew it was there wrapped up in "the Iraqi's will be better off". "were here to help" type rhetoric. I bet if you had your way there would be no one on this earth but white christian males.

[SpeedRacer 1]

In before the lock!

Speed Racer
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[bodypilot90 0]

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The 9/11 terrorists said the same thing. And you know what? They were right. We can kill them, they can kill us - and that can go on essentially forever. Unless genocide is your thing, a different solution might be in order.

So Bill you turn your back as they churn out hundreds of murders. Look at what just happened in Israel. They didn't even give thier own new leaders a chance. Only on way to deal with them. So that the arabs that truely want to live in peace can. You can not allow groups to train hijackers at state sponsered camps. I know Bill, in your world view, we all sing it's a small world and destory our weapons 1st and the world will just follow along. Sorry if I don;t give you my weapon and sing along. I'll be the one of the wise, watching and waiting for the bullets to fly.

[bodypilot90 0]

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You forgot if we want your shit you will die or we support your dictator so you will die or we don't like drugs so you will die.

please, you can't think that. If we wanted thier oil the war would have lasted about 8 hours. NO america loss of live. It didn't fly then and it will not fly now.

[billvon 3,120]

>Only on way to deal with them . . .

And they will deal with us the same way, as we continue to attack countries all over the world while missing the guy who planned 9/11. Hey, terrorism works! You can plan to kill 2000 americans, and they'll never find you. If you wait long enough they'll just blame someone else for it, attack them, and make you a low priority.

>I know Bill, in your world view, we all sing it's a small world and
>destory our weapons 1st and the world will just follow along.

And in your world we keep killing until either no one hates us or everyone else is dead. No thanks.

>Sorry if I don;t give you my weapon and sing along.
>I'll be the one of the wise, watching and waiting for the bullets to fly.

When the very best you can do is point a gun at anything you don't like, the bullets will eventually fly - and they will kill americans and foreigners alike. Fortunately we have better men than that (usually) at the helm.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Up until now you have hidden that bloodthirsty side but I always knew it was there wrapped up in "the Iraqi's will be better off".

Defending your own is being blood thirsty? Freeing people blood thristy. Destroying a ruler that has gasses thousands, blood thirsty. If that is what blood thristy means to you I guess I am

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"were here to help" type rhetoric. I bet if you had your way there would be no one on this earth but white christian males.

Your statment is not worth a reply.

[bodypilot90 0]

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And they will deal with us the same way, as we continue to attack countries all over the world while missing the guy who planned 9/11. Hey, terrorism works! You can plan to kill 2000 americans, and they'll never find you. If you wait long enough they'll just blame someone else for it, attack them, and make you a low priority.

We are getting his cohorts and will have him soon.

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When the very best you can do is point a gun at anything you don't like, the bullets will eventually fly - and they will kill americans and foreigners alike

I'm using the gun for defence but I'm not going to let a 18 angry what evers charge up to my house either.

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And in your world we keep killing until either no one hates us or everyone else is dead. No thanks

NO you don't keep killing, but you don't turn your back on a man with a gun who has sworn to kill you. Would you let someone like that, (who has sworn to cause your death) pack your main and reserve? I don't think so.

[wmw999 2,589]

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We are getting his cohorts and will have him soon.

Like Bin Laden, right? Only when we don't catch Saddam, will we then go into another country because they were on speaking terms with him? Officially we're allied with Pakistan, so it won't do. We're already in Afghanistan, so that's out. Saddam is unlikely to be in France, much as it would please the Fox News crowd to find him there.

Even if he were there, I'd hope we'd turn him over to the world court. What US laws has he broken in the US? What right do we have to judge him by our standards for what he's done in another country? By that standard, it would be OK for someone in Malaysia to blow away a New York petty dealer, because there's a death penalty in his country.

We're just like people from other countries in many ways. JUST LIKE THEM. and, surprise surprise, they're JUST LIKE US!!! They get pissed at folks wandering into their country, disrespecting their religious traditions, and using the "that's why we have the guns" approach to diplomacy on a small as well as a large scale.

We don't have enough people or resources to track down all terrorists around the world. We don't have enough people or resources to occupy all of the countries that have pissed us off, or that will piss us off because we've disagreed with them. And if we keep riding roughshod, we won't have much of anyone to stand with us either.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skydyvr 0]

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We don't have enough people or resources to track down all terrorists around the world.

I think we do, and I wish we would.

. . =(_8^(1)

[wmw999 2,589]

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I think we do, and I wish we would.

Ummm. Yeah. It's kind of like the old "count the Chinese as they walk by" thing. They just keep coming. The more pissed off people there are, the more effort and manpower it takes to prevent terrorism. The more manpower is in another country, the less there is for the next. And just because you've killed some terrorists doesn't mean that their brothers won't start -- you have to keep a presence there.

We don't have enough. And I for damn sure don't want to invest young American (or any other) lives in trying to keep a hydra contained.

The only way to really prevent terrorism is to have conditions be good enough that people have too much to lose by being terrorists.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skydyvr 0]

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The only way to really prevent terrorism is to have conditions be good enough that people have too much to lose by being terrorists.

There are a lot of methods that could be employed to attain a mostly terrorism free earth, and not all of them have to involve brute force.

And I think it could be accomplished by the US, and in a relatively short time. I wish the term "War on Terrorism" meant exactly what it says. I think we could even mature as a nation in the process and even stop causing/sponsoring it ourselves.

. . =(_8^(1)

[vmsfreaky1 0]

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Even if he were there, I'd hope we'd turn him over to the world court.

I don't beleive that would happen, the US government does not recognise the world court currently, so handing over a catch like Bin Laden would lose votes and be in conflict with current policy.

[vmsfreaky1 0]

You lost me with the rattlesnake thing....i do not think iraq was the head of any great arab conspiracy, sure they usually ally themselves with each other thats no crime....

Iran on the other hand has been reforming for nearly ten years with a great deal of moderate clerics in power, they have no need to play kissy kissy....i'd give their (an uneducated guess btw, i just have many friends there) current government maybe ten years before it is secular....oh and Iran is mostly Persian not Arab.

Oh No not the Israeli thing that deservers another thread on another planet.

Laterzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[bodypilot90 0]

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Like Bin Laden, right?

I know lots of you lefties think this is a fast food kind of world in which you go to a window and order a Bin Ladem with a baghdad bob on the side. We are rounding the thugs up and will deal with them when found.

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Even if he were there, I'd hope we'd turn him over to the world court. What US laws has he broken in the US?

hell no, try him right in Iraq. The UN is hopeless.

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. Saddam is unlikely to be in France

I find that likely as hell.

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We're just like people from other countries in many ways. JUST LIKE THEM. and, surprise surprise, they're JUST LIKE US!!!

Funny I would never strap explosives to my son and have him walk into a crowded store. So They are not just like me. Most of them are but a few of them are not.

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We don't have enough people or resources to track down all terrorists around the world.

We can and we are.

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We don't have enough people or resources to occupy all of the countries that have pissed us off, or that will piss us off because we've disagreed with them.

It's not about being pissed off it's about stoping grroups that do stuff like 9-11. It's not about occupying it's about freeing a people

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And if we keep riding roughshod, we won't have much of anyone to stand with us either.

roughshod, come on, perhaps you would like to live under SH's rule, not me.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"We are rounding the thugs up and will deal with them when found."
Of course 'we' are....
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- Bush, 9/13/01

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- Bush, 3/13/02

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhillyKev 0]

Here's some other good ones:

Bush addressing the nation 2/03: "Our troops will not be used for so called nation building."

Bush addressing the Iraqi people 4/03: "Our goal is to stay there and work with you to build a free, democratic Iraq."

[Faber 0]

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. Saddam is unlikely to be in France

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I find that likely as hell.

If so then rember your offer....
and.. im bringing my 2 kids aswell...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"roughshod, come on, perhaps you would like to live under SH's rule, not me."

Maybe the 30 or so civilians shot in recent protests might have a different opinion.
What does Fox have to say about that, and why didn't you post that news with your usual glee.....

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[wmw999 2,589]

In Fox's defense, they did have a story, linked from their main page. Lots of emphasis on the fact that folks fired at them from the crowd, but they did mention that some of the folks shot were children.

I just can't imagine the ingenuousness that leads us to think that everyone in Iraq will welcome us with open arms, especially when we don't pay too much attention to local culture, customs and the like.

Yes, we have the guns. But with increased firepower is supposed to come increased responsibility (and I'd hope sensitivity). If it's all about the power, then we'd damn well better make sure we always have power.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Och I'm sorry Wendy, sometimes people here wind me up a little. I fear that the guys over there will have to deal with a lot of this. Our people have had a lot of experience of this sort of thing in Northern Ireland. What do you do when you are faced with a crowd of kids throwing stones at you? A fat lot of use your M16 and various other implements of shock and awe firepower is then.....
Definitely not an easy slot.

Power without control is a dangerous thing.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson