When they come for you to take your guns will you:

[Jib 0]

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Exemptions from the handgun ban would be permitted ....federally licensed professional security guard services.

Federally licensed rent-a-cops is just what we need.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[rgoper 0]

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in both of these cases, the "primaries" broke various laws. they deserved to be dissarmed.

this was not a "blanket statement" i merely said the primaries had broken various laws, i DID NOT say i agreed with the FBI/ATF/CIA's actions, in fact, i think their actions were hurendous, foolish and unlawful. in the waco situation, the ATF knew in advance that the Branch Davidians were aware of their arrival, and they also knew one of the UCA's was known by David Koresh, when they continued down that road that fateful day, they had to know they were fixing to get that ass shot off, they knowingly carried 9 mm's into a .223 semi automatic fight...foolish is an understatement. ruby ridge, much the same scenario, different actors, i agree the primary broke the law, i don't agree with the ensuing tenacious onslaught that followed. should the gov't ever intend to enforce any orders to dissarm americans it will most certainly lead to many bloody battles, there's more of us than there is of them, and they know it.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[PhillyKev 0]

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i merely said the primaries had broken various laws

The funny thing is the laws they broke were firearms restrictions.

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should the gov't ever intend to enforce any orders to dissarm americans it will most certainly lead to many bloody battles,

They do, and they have, and there wasn't (with the above exceptions).

[rgoper 0]

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The funny thing is the laws they broke were firearms restrictions.

what's "funny" about it?

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They do, and they have, and there wasn't (with the above exceptions)

i was making reference to the unlikely event that they would be foolish enough to go door to door and dissarm each and every gunowner, i can think of about 500 redknecks where i live who won't go for it. some groups in this area are training for just this type of scenario.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[PhillyKev 0]

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The funny thing is the laws they broke were firearms restrictions.

what's "funny" about it?

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They do, and they have, and there wasn't (with the above exceptions)

i was making reference to the unlikely event that they would be foolish enough to go door to door and dissarm each and every gunowner, i can think of about 500 redknecks where i live who won't go for it. some groups in this area are training for just this type of scenario.

"funny" as in ironic.

The problem is, they slowly erode away at gun ownership by restricting new purchases, mandatory gun buy back programs, magazine capacity restrictions, etc. It's disarmament by attrition. By the time they're ready to go door to door there may be a few groups of hardcore radicals/rednecks left who have guns, the rest of us will have been "law abiding citizens" and complied with the steps in between. Those last holdouts will be confronted one at a time in a coordinated effort by the government. Also, at that point they will be "criminals".

[Zenister 0]

of course, engaging an armed populace directly would be stupid and obvious.

if they wanted to disarm everyone they would first criminalize any group (or behavior associated with that group) they found particularly troublesome, that way when they come for them the rest of the populace would think "well they broke the law and so must have deserved it, the government is only doing it for our protection" then they pass more and more seemingly sensible (dont read the fine print folks nothing to see here) restrictive laws in the name of "public safety" and create a social climate where resistance to any of the draconian means used to enforce its will is seen as " disruptive" & "un american"


no that isnt happening at all

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[PhillyKev 0]

ding ding ding...we have a winner.

You responded eloquently to Rgoper and also answered shunka's question about why to own them in the first place.

[Steel 0]

D:Shoot back-death before disarmament

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[SpeedRacer 1]

hmmm.... some of this conjecture sounds like an "Us vs. Them" mentality when referring to the government. Has it crossed your mind that many of the people in positions of power are also American citizens, some of whom may have the same attitude & beliefs re. the 2nd ammendment that you do? The government isn't the Borg. And everyone in it does not act with one monolithic agenda.

Speed Racer
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[rgoper 0]

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if they wanted to disarm everyone they would first criminalize any group (or behavior associated with that group) they found particularly troublesome, that way when they come for them the rest of the populace would think "well they broke the law and so must have deserved it, the government is only doing it for our protection"

well, we still have that constitutional right to deal with. any such action by any entity would be unconstitutional.

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then they pass more and more seemingly sensible (dont read the fine print folks nothing to see here) restrictive laws in the name of "public safety" and create a social climate where resistance to any of the draconian means used to enforce its will is seen as " disruptive" & "un american"

i agree with your theory, and i also agree with the strategy you seem to think they will employ. but they will never pull it off. the gov't can't fight but so many battles at once.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[mnischalke 0]

One should refrain from speaking from one's ass on topics which one knows little about.

ATF was actually shooting in a field near Mount Carmel with David Koresh a week-and-a-half before the stand-off at waco. (read: never needed to be a standoff.) The government pumped flammable CS powder through a gaping hole in the upwind side of the main building, then tossed a pyro grenade in. 80 people died. It was not a matter of guns, it was a matter of supressing beliefs and sending a message.

And, of all people, you--a father and a husband--want to talk shit about the happenings at Ruby Ridge?

Conspiracy is theory. These are facts.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[jfields 0]

SpeedRacer,

You are right.

Not to mention the fact that this "faceless, evil, overbearing, rights-sucking monolithic" government is elected by the people. If people don't like the government, they can vote in a new one. Locally, regionally and nationally. Yet some of the people in the thread whining are the same ones that can't be bothered to vote.

Wah, wah, wah.

[jfields 0]

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One should refrain from speaking from one's ass on topics which one knows little about.

I'll just say we agree on that.

[mnischalke 0]

Janet Reno was elected?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[freeflir29 0]

If anyone comes for my guns....they are going to have a bad day. Seriously folks......I'm pretty much "The Government" now seeing as that's who I work for. At certain times in my life I have had quite a reason to be paranoid. I'll tell you something though. The longer I work in a "Counter Terrorism" job the less fear I have of the "Big Evil Govt." I'll be honest.....Unless you are committing a crime in my presence I really don't care what you own. Certainly...there are agencies/officers out there that make mistakes. It's not an institutional thing usually. It's just small clusters of idiots. I do encourage everyone to be a member of the NRA and vote pro gun!!! Clinton did enough damage. Let's not let that happen again.

[jfields 0]

Mike,

Do you need a lesson on the democratic process? Even though I'm a little rusty since taking classes on it, I'll be happy to explain if you'd like. Or I could lend you the School House Rock dvd I bought for my daughter. I think some of it is covered there. [/snide sarcasm]

How did Janet Reno get her position? Who put her in that position of authority? How did those people get *their* authority? The answer to the last question is by voting. Don't like how things go? Vote for the people that you think will represent you as you want. That is the beauty of the system.

[skygeek 0]

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How did Janet Reno get her position? Who put her in that position of authority? How did those people get *their* authority? The answer to the last question is by voting. Don't like how things go? Vote for the people that you think will represent you as you want. That is the beauty of the system.

So you are telling me that the vote I cast on Nov 2 for the president really makes a difference? HAHAHAHAHA....Electoral College will see that it doesn't........

Welcome to the New World Order. Expect no Mercy.

[PhillyKev 0]

when it works...the problem is when it doesn't. I seem to remember a little thing with Florida where many voters were disenfranchised and the supreme court appointed a president (in essence).

There is beauty in the system but there are also flaws. Germany and Italy were both democratic when the fascists won a majority of the power through democratic elections and when they had that degree of power seized the rest of it. The same thing almost happened here (Huey Long, FDR, Hoover).

And for the record I've voted in every primary and general election every year since I turned 18.

[andybr6 0]

In Britain the government actually did a very similar thing. After a man walked into a scottish school and started shooting and killing children and teachers the government made all handgun owners turn in there wepons or make them safe, eg poor lead down the barrel. I think many people just went over to France and kept them at clubs over there. Not being a gun owner or enthusiast i dont know the exact way of doing it. I suppose it worked though as it got most of them out of the country which can only be a good thing.

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"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[freeflir29 0]

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I suppose it worked though as it got most of them out of the country which can only be a good thing

Silly Brits.....

[jwilson 0]

I don't own any weapons so I guess I don't need to worry about the government taking them.

[rgoper 0]

if your not heeled, you need to get heeled. it may save your life one day, or provide you assisstance in saving someone else's life.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[andybr6 0]

Silly Brits.....

Perhaps, but we find that by not selling guns in supermarkets [eg. Walmart] less people tend to have them and therefore less people think they need them. In addition the law only regarded hand guns not shot guns which tend to be owned by farmers or people into pheasent/rabbit shooting and those have always been controlled by gun licences.

------------------------------------------------

"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[jfields 0]

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when it works...the problem is when it doesn't.

Agreed.

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There is beauty in the system but there are also flaws.

Also agreed. I'm not saying it is perfect. Very little is, aside from boobies (which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet.)

The next question is what to do about it? Some people take the side that if it isn't perfect, we should just bitch and complain. (Not directed at you at all.) They conclude that if the system isn't perfect, and doesn't cater to them, the obvious conclusion is that the situation is hopeless and they should just be unlawful to further subvert the system.

The other option is to suck it up and work to improve the system. A lot of the whiners are unwilling to step up to that task, because it requires too much work. It is far easier to sit back and criticize, or to sit in a recliner talking about how useless our democracy has become.

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And for the record I've voted in every primary and general election every year since I turned 18.

That is great. Me too. And you are willing to be rational in discussion about the issues. Even if we disagree (which we do on some issues), I totally respect that. It is the people that don't vote and don't really think that drive me nuts. Just because they have the right to free speech doesn't mean they are saying anything worthwhile.

[Jib 0]

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In Britain the government actually did a very similar thing. After a man walked into a scottish school and started shooting and killing children and teachers the government made all handgun owners turn in there wepons or make them safe, eg poor lead down the barrel. I think many people just went over to France and kept them at clubs over there. Not being a gun owner or enthusiast i dont know the exact way of doing it. I suppose it worked though as it got most of them out of the country which can only be a good thing.

I thought gun crime actually increased since 1997.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/24/nguns24.xml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt