A Whuffo Conspiracy!!

[freakyflygirl 0]

Alright, I was wondering about Unions....What are they really good for????? Right now my husband's contract is up and the union has been negotiating with the company....turns out unsuccessfully, so now the company is locking them out. Which means no money, no insurance and NO SKYDIVING!!! I've already gone back to work to fund our jumping (I know your thinkng, what a good wife) I know there's a reason their there but I can't figure it out...

I just think it's a conspiracy of Whuffos to keep me from jumping!!! A conspiracy I tell you, a CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!

[b1jercat 0]

I say get rid of that union right away so your hubby can go back to work for less money and no insurance, beside that those dues are cutting into the jump funds.
blur skies
jerry

[fudd 0]

I'm a union member. Reasons:
- Free legal help in case of a conflict with my employer.
- Unions protects the "common workers" rights.
- Without unions big companies could just do like they pleased.

Companies locking out union members are not good. Probably on the edge with the law. What company was he working for?

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I've already gone back to work to fund our jumping (I know your thinkng, what a good wife)

Oh...poor you. You have to WORK to get money for skydiving....

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[wmw999 2,589]

They're part of a balance. Too much power, and they can take too much money from the workers, and demand unreasonable (yes, unreasonable) wages. Too little, and the less powerful workers get abused; think of safety violations, the awful wages for crop pickers, and the fairly high construction death rate in Texas (a right-to-work state).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Thanatos340 1]

Unions Suck!!
There was a time many many years ago when they were needed because there were no fair labor laws in place. Now that we have reasonable labor laws in place, the only purpose unions serve is to force businesses to either move jobs out of the country or Bankrupt employers while bleeding the Union Members for Dues.
Unions and "The Union Mentality" have allot to do with why many American Made products are ridiculously overpriced and of questionable quality.
I used to work in a Manufacturing Plant that the union was trying to get started in. Fortunately the employees were smart enough to realize that the union would simply force management to shut down and move operations out of the US.
Be your own union. If you don’t like the deal the Company is giving you, Find another Job.

[PhillyKev 0]

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There was a time many many years ago when they were needed because there were no fair labor laws in place. Now that we have reasonable labor laws in place,

Who do you think got those labor laws passed? Who do you think makes sure they don't get abused? How many individual employees ever challenge an employer in court for violation of labor laws? Not many. It's expensive and means you lose your job.

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Be your own union. If you don’t like the deal the Company is giving you, Find another Job.

Yeah..the economy is booming right now...that's a really simple thing to do.

I agree that some unions are problematic and could cause manufacturers to move. Especially with NAFTA in place. The thing that klept companies from moving south was that the import costs offset the cost of actually paying decent wages. Then there are the trade unions (carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc.). You can't send your house to Mexico to get it rewired. So, employers bring the Mexicans up here to work for them illegally.

Just go find another job? Yeah, lots of construction companies would willingly be paying a decent salary if it weren't for unions. No, they'd pay crap because if you didn't want to take it, they'd easily find an illegal that would.

[Thanatos340 1]

Who do you think got those labor laws passed? Who do you think makes sure they don't get abused? How many individual employees ever challenge an employer in court for violation of labor laws? Not many. It's expensive and means you lose your job.
Like I said, Unions were a much needed thing at one time and yes they help get reasonable labor laws passed. But in the past 20 years they have become a pariah feeding off American workers and costing them more Jobs than they save.
I was an Industrial Mechanic for 12 years. I worked in both Union and Non-union shops. In Union Shops, it was impossible to get your job done with all the union rules. As a Mechanic, if I was working on a Machine and there was a Wire in my way, I had to wait for an electrician to come move it and a Janitor to come clean up after I was done. This would make the average time for each repair more than triple. Really sad.
This was costing employers a fortune and making it impossible for them to be competitive and left them with only 2 options. Go out of business or relocate. Either way, No more paycheck for the union boys.
I was always paid better and treated better in non union shops because management appreciated employees that actually cared if the company was profitable and they would make an effort to keep quality employees. Even better was the fact they could fire the employees that were not pulling their weight which also made for a better work environment.
Yes, I do realize that up North where Unions have been forcing companies out of business for much longer that there are not as many jobs and just finding another job is a little more difficult. You can thank you Local Union for that.

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Just go find another job? Yeah, lots of construction companies would willingly be paying a decent salary if it weren't for unions. No, they'd pay crap because if you didn't want to take it, they'd easily find an illegal that would.

If you are good at what you do and can be more productive then an employer will pay what you are worth to keep you from finding another employer that will pay more. At least that is how it works in the Non-Union South.

[Guest]

Ask anybody who used to work for Eastern Airlines about what the IAM did there. Better yet, read Frank Borman's autobiography "Countdown" if you want to see the kind of destruction a union can bring on. I've dealt with the IAM; in particular, Local 39. I paid dues to them for about seven years. At no time did they ever represent my interest or needs, and it galled me to know that my dues were used to fund the political campaigns of extreme-left candidates.

You'll also be better off if you live in a "Right to Work" state (where it is not necessary to be a member of a union in order to work in a trade).

The unions, however, are not the only reasons jobs are going overseas.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[b1jercat 0]

Like I posted earlier get rid of the unions, and work for less money, no benefits, and in unsafe conditions.
Employers will love you.
blue skies
jerry

[Jimbo 0]

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Like I posted earlier get rid of the unions, and work for less money, no benefits, and in unsafe conditions.

Or get rid of the unions and continue to work. Work for a fair and reasonable wage, with benefits, and in safe conditions. Ever stop to think how many people have lost their jobs because of the unions? For example, GM can only afford to pay so many people $20.00/$30.00 per hour to screw on bolts on the assembly line. How many people lost their jobs so you could have your high paying union job?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Guest]

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Like I posted earlier get rid of the unions, and work for less money, no benefits, and in unsafe conditions.
Employers will love you.
blue skies
jerry

Ayn Rand. 'nuff said.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[WFFC 1]

do some research on the Cat strike that ended a few years ago. Several years out of work and the union held together and 'got what they wanted'. Only problem was that they signed the original proposal that the company had put on the table years before and claimed it was not.
Many years out of work, monies that will never be recouped, all in the name of holding together for the union.
They had their place at one point, and they are primarily responsible for many of the workers rights laws that are now in place. But the time for the dinosaurs came to an end as well...

[billvon 3,120]

>They're part of a balance. Too much power, and they can take too
> much money from the workers, and demand unreasonable (yes,
> unreasonable) wages. Too little, and the less powerful workers get
> abused; think of safety violations, the awful wages for crop pickers,
> and the fairly high construction death rate in Texas (a right-to-work
> state).

I agree with the first part but not the second. Is it OK for a union to demand higher wages, such that an industry can pay 10,000 pickers 2X an hour instead of 20,000 pickers X an hour? How are the 10,000 people out of work being served?

I am a believer in allowing people to work wherever they choose for whatever they choose. If they want to work for $1 an hour, they should be allowed to do that. If they want to hold out for $10 an hour plus benefits, they should be allowed to do that, too - without a union telling them they can't. High death rates should be a reason to avoid an industry if you choose to, whether that industry is skydiving instruction, construction or long haul trucking.

That being said, there was a period of time where unions were critical to this country, and that was during the time of the company town, where mine workers were essentially coerced into staying with the company - often under penalty of criminal prosecution. Unions helped break the involuntary indenture of those workers and helped eliminate a lot of the abuses of the time.

[TheAnvil 0]

Mark you nailed it. Unions deliberately bankrupted that company.

I think that unions USED to be a good thing for the nation - grandpa was a coal miner in KY. Unfortunately, they got power hungry and now cause more harm than good. Occasionally they'll do a good thing - like the flight attendants' union did to United Airlines - but for the most part they are a drain on a company and a bane to employees - especially those who do not desire to join (Right to Work Laws are sooooooo nice). Gov't unions in particular piss me the hell off - especially the NEA.

I think that many unions push the 'corporations exist to give you a job' dogma, which is total BS. Corporations exist to make a profit - NOT to give folks a paycheck. That's an expenditure made in pursuit of a profit.

Stranglehold is a nice little short read on some union militancy/crimes.

My advice - get to a non-union job.

Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[b1jercat 0]

So what is a fair and reasonable wage? And why is it that construction companies don't bid fatalities into the jobs anymore? How much of the national work force is organized?
blue skies
jerry

[Guest]

The IAM and SPEEA came in here a couple of years ago and tried to organize the Pay Code 6 (non-salaried exempt) employees. 93% voted NO. That result might have had something to do with the deceptive practices the unions were using during the petition/ballot period - suggesting in the petitions that employees would not have a choice of whether or not to organize, but would only be able to decide which union they wanted. This, in a Right-to-Work state. What arrogance.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Thanatos340 1]

Or keep the Unions and Have no Job at all.
I love a right to work state where Companies have to compete for the best employees by offering the best benefits and highest pay. The fact they can trim the dead weight (unproductive employees) allows them to offer even better packages and still remain competitive in the market place and offer even better incentive to retain the best employees.

Unsafe working conditions? Call OSHA. Anonymously if you want.
No Benefits? Less Money? Find another Job. If there are no other jobs offering better, maybe it is not such a bad deal.
In the south, we have not had many unions historically and the Pay is reasonable, Reasonable benefits and working conditions are safe. Same job may pay more up north but the cost of living is also much higher so there is no real benefit. The only thing a union gets you is additional dues and a much higher chance that your employer will be forced to either go out of business or relocate somewhere that they can afford to stay in business and make a profit.

[PhillyKev 0]

What about short term jobs, like in the construction trade. Where do people that work in construction and therefore work for many different companies over time get their benefits from? From the union. I'd say that's something they can't get any other way.

And not just medical benefits. The AFLCIO, for instance provides its members with:
Education loans
Health, Dental, Vision
Life and Accident insurance.

Not to mention a centralized guild like structure that can be used to find employment. There are some industries that don't need unions, but some it's absolutely essential. Particularly in the building trades where work can be seasonal and varies widely in availability and type of work available.

[Jib 0]

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think of safety violations, .... the fairly high construction death rate in Texas (a right-to-work state).

Isn't that what OSHA's for?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Thanatos340 1]

Skilled Craftsmen generally have the easiest time here finding work. Lots of construction going on.

All these craftsmen actually do quite well without Unions. As far as benefits go, well that depends on if they work for a full time construction company (most of them have pretty good benefits down here) or if they are general contractors in which they have to pay for their own benefits but they generally make more to account for that.

Those benefits you list? Every non-union employer I have ever had offered the same benefits. No need to pay union dues for them.

The Trade Guild? Haven’t ever really needed them down here. Still plenty of Jobs. (Might have something to do with the fact that Unions haven’t run off all businesses yet.)
If you have a viable trade and are willing to work for a living, you can find a Job. May not be a great job but you can make a living without having to put up alot of Bullshit.

[PhillyKev 0]

You have a little longer warm season down there. You can't dig foundations when the ground is frozen. And roofing on icy sloped roofs is a little risky. Construction jobs fluctuate widely with the seasons around here.

[freakyflygirl 0]

Hey all
Here's the thing.........After over a year of not jumping I had planned to finish my AFF this week. I set aside the entire week for it. Yes, there will be other opportunities, this is just a small bump in the road. I was just soooooooo looking forward to it.

Again, thanks for all the interesting views!

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I've already gone back to work to fund our jumping (I know your thinkng, what a good wife)

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Oh...poor you. You have to WORK to get money for skydiving....

Yes, Fudd, I know it sucks....hahah, what better reason, right?

[TheAnvil 0]

Hadn't heard about that. Their arrogance must be boundless. Glad they got beaten so badly. I despise Jack Sweeney. He is a Socialist and owns the deeds to the souls of a lot of Democrats - disgusting.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!