save the oil rigs

[bodypilot90 0]

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That's like saying you are an expert civil engineer because you spend so much time driving on roads, or know all about architecture because you live in a building. There is more to many areas of study than you can glean by looking at the surface.

well give me someone with hands on, life experience to someone with "book learning" any day. Give you two examples. One I get a call from someone with a 4 year degree ME. He couldn't get his battery out because a 3/8 inch wrench and a 7/16 wrench wouldn't fit. Of course he needed a 10MM wrench. lol. Second point, the manatee huggers were crying about the deaths were on the increase by boat traffic. They were, however the huggers didn't know there was a reason. The number of the animals are on the increase. What did they do, files suit to try to make the whole indian river a slow speed zone. There is value in schools however it needs to be blended with real world experience.

[Zenister 0]

i'll take the opposite tack..give me the book learner, who then builds on a MUCH more solid foundation vs someone who only knows what works based on simple experience and scoffs at anyone who tells him that there is more beneath the surface than his simple observation can explain.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[DivaSkyChick 0]

I keep thinking bodypilot is trolling... here little fishy!!!

---
www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch

[bodypilot90 0]

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i'll take the opposite tack..give me the book learner, who then builds on a MUCH more solid foundation vs someone who only knows what works based on simple experience and scoffs at anyone who tells him that there is more beneath the surface than his simple observation can explain.

You want to use someone with book smarts, that's good I like someone with wisdom. This in my book is better. I've fixed lemon law cars your book boys couldn't fix. Why, because they made the system where I knew it. A foundation is fine unless built on sand. (lack of hands on)

[billvon 3,120]

>One I get a call from someone with a 4 year degree ME. He couldn't
> get his battery out because a 3/8 inch wrench and a 7/16 wrench
>wouldn't fit. Of course he needed a 10MM wrench.

I'd much rather trust my life to a composite wing spar he designed than one you designed - although you would win in the whos-got-the-most-wrenches contest, I'll give you that.

>Second point, the manatee huggers were crying about the deaths
>were on the increase by boat traffic. They were, however the huggers
> didn't know there was a reason. The number of the animals are on
>the increase.

You just proved my point. In your example the clueless boaters/newspaper readers saw manatees dying; a marine biologist showed that there were more animals altogether. An example where you ignore the people who claim to know what's going on due to their vast experience and wisdom and go with someone who _actually_ knows how to do science.

[bodypilot90 0]

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You just proved my point. In your example the clueless boaters/newspaper readers saw manatees dying; a marine biologist showed that there were more animals altogether. An example where you ignore the people who claim to know what's going on due to their vast experience and wisdom and go with someone who _actually_ knows how to do science.

in truth it was the boaters/fisherman that figured out what was going on not the " someone who _actually_ knows how to do science"

[Zenister 0]

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You want to use someone with book smarts, that's good I like someone with wisdom.

the difference is the "book learner" draws on the wisdom and experience of thousands of individuals from the last hundred years or so and then adds his own. your hands on guy only knows what he can see for himself.

who do you think will do more in their lifetime?

knowledge is cumulative if you take the time to collect it. Otherwise you repeat mistakes others learned years before you started.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[AggieDave 6]

This is a very interesting turn the thread took...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

its always interesting trying to find the discussion again (by thread titles) in the morning..i wonder if we've ever had a thread that stayed on topic in talkback? we'd all probably owe beer..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[wmw999 2,589]

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in truth it was the boaters/fisherman that figured out what was going on not the " someone who _actually_ knows how to do science"

Noticing that it looks like there might be more, and actually determining it (along with the reason) can be two different things.

I figured out my sister-in-law's baby had a particular birth defect when her pediatrician didn't. That doesn't make me better than a doctor.

I'll take the smart person each and every time, whether they have book learning or not. I don't assume they're stupid if they don't have it, and neither do I assume they're smart if they do. Sometimes they're wrong, but in the long run you come out ahead.

Going to college does prove that you can read stuff at a certain level, and seems to correlate with a wider curiosity, which I think is important.

"whatever I did" just isn't a good determinant of "what's enough."

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,120]

>in truth it was the boaters/fisherman that figured out what was going on . . .

Where did you get your info? Here's who figured it out:

Dr. Bruce Ackerman, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission,
Florida Marine Research Institute

Dr. Holly Edwards, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission,
Florida Marine Research Institute

Mr. Kipp Frolich, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission,
Bureau of Protected Species Management

Dr. Cathy Langtimm, U.S. Geological Survey, Florida Integrated Science Centers

Dr. Lynn Lefebvre, U.S. Geological Survey, Florida Integrated Science Centers

Dr. Buddy Powell, Wildlife Trust

Mr. Jim Valade, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Ecological Services

Dr. Randy Wells, Chicago Zoological Society/Mote Marine Laboratory

Their report is here .

Were these the "boaters and fishermen" you were referring to? They're biologists, climatologists and oceanographers.

It is quite common for people to believe they can do better than "those eggheads." "That's not so hard! Anyone can do that." Forest lovers decide that protecting forests from forest fires at all costs - after all, forest fires are bad! - and horrendous fires result when the smaller fires don't clear out underbrush and dead wood. Lumber companies then say "those treehuggers don't know anything! We're the experts; we're out there every day. We need to clearcut!" - and the same thing happens when a monoculture grows back. At some point hopefully both groups will realize that there _are_ people who actually study forests and understand a bit about how they work. It requires hard work and study, but after doing that hard work and study, you can better figure out how to both use forests and allow the natural cycles of renewal in them to keep working.

I think it's a uniquely American concept that you can get ahead, even become an expert in your field, by not doing anything. Heck, you can sit in your boat, fish and drink beer, and know more about manatees than marine biologists! Such attitudes lead to some very poor decisions concerning the environment - look up Donora, PA or Centralia, PA or the plant known as kudzu to see what can happen when people think they know what they're doing, but really don't.

[Muenkel 0]

It is my firm belief that BillVon truly is an android. Noone could possibly know all this stuff, let alone know where to look for it.

After reading his posts, the only thing that convinces me that I am not 1 chromosome away from being a potato is when I look at my diploma, which clearly states "Summa cum laude".

Bill, your brain in the wrong body could be very scary.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I am not 1 chromosome away from being a potato

ROFLMAO, that line almost made me spit my water over my laptop!

[crapflinger2000 1]

Umm.. regardless of who came up with the "good news", don't you think it's about time we did something to control the population growth of these creatures?

Manatees... Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[billvon 3,120]

>Umm.. regardless of who came up with the "good news", don't you
> think it's about time we did something to control the population
> growth of these creatures?

We could start selling them cigarettes, Big Macs and beer. They'd kill themselves off in no time, and give the US economy a needed boost.

>Manatees... Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all.

Ew.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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We could start selling them cigarettes, Big Macs and beer. They'd kill themselves off in no time

gee, the rest of teh world has been trying to do that to the US for decades now.

Just kidding folks, hope some one has a sense of humour left these days or I am going to be attacked and killed in Rantoul

[PhreeZone 20]

>>Manatees... Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all.

>Ew.

I take it manatees are'nt welcome in your dungeon?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[bodypilot90 0]

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Heck, you can sit in your boat, fish and drink beer, and know more about manatees than marine biologists! Such attitudes lead to some very poor decisions concerning the environment

NO I'm talking about practical solutions to ideas rather than making the whole east coast a slow speed zone for a critter that is not native to the area and was imported here for food and it's fat. I've sat in on a few of the egg headed meetings. Most are so biased in the viewpoint gleaned not from facts but from greenies and their emotional side of things. Look I like nature and understand about the needs of the animals and fish of my area. But the extreems on both sides hurt everyone. I take home only what I can eat, leave the place better than I found it. Hell now "PETA" wants us to stop fishing altogether.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Umm.. regardless of who came up with the "good news", don't you think it's about time we did something to control the population growth of these creatures?

I heard they were good with hush puppies

[bodypilot90 0]

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We could start selling them cigarettes, Big Macs and beer. They'd kill themselves off in no time, and give the US economy a needed boost.

well to bad they're like some of left and only eat veggies My only problem with them is how hard they are on our sea grass.

[bodypilot90 0]

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It is my firm belief that BillVon truly is an android. Noone could possibly know all this stuff, let alone know where to look for it.

to bad his programing is off, if he'd just come to the right a little, Na wouldn't be any fun would it

not a attack, all in fun .....

[wmw999 2,589]

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NO I'm talking about practical solutions to ideas rather than making the whole east coast a slow speed zone for a critter that is not native to the area and was imported here for food and it's fat. I've sat in on a few of the egg headed meetings

I guess the world would be a better place if they'd just make "real folks" kings. See something, react, learn. See something, react, learn. See something, react, learn.

Of course, you learn a lot of things the hard way over and over again taht way, and in the long run you might find that maybe the answer that's comfortable now isn't necessarily the best one in the long run.

But hey, we won't be around then, so fuck 'em, right?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,120]

>NO I'm talking about practical solutions to ideas rather than
>making the whole east coast a slow speed zone . . .

I assume you mean "solutions to problems" instead of "solutions to ideas." To get good solutions to problems, you have to:

1) understand the problem
2) determine what the solutions are
3) understand the side effects of the solutions
4) pick the solution that solves the problem and has fewest (or least nasty) side effects

Marine biologists are better at 1, 2 and 3 than boaters. And history has shown that you can't ignore 1, 2 and 3 (or claim that you can skip them because you like driving boats and drinking beer) and still come up with a good solution to the problem.

>Look I like nature and understand about the needs of the animals
> and fish of my area.

That's like saying you like cellphones and therefore understand spread-spectrum power control and frequency reuse issues. Liking nature is different than understanding how it works, and how to mitigate the problems we cause through our interaction with it.

>I take home only what I can eat, leave the place better than I found
>it. Hell now "PETA" wants us to stop fishing altogether.

Right; PETA is as bad as the Citizens for Florida's Waterways. Both are special interest groups more interested in pushing a political agenda than science. Want to hear about politics? Talk to a boater that belongs to CFW or a protester in PETA. Want to hear about marine biology? Talk to a marine biologist.

[bodypilot90 0]

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Right; PETA is as bad as the Citizens for Florida's Waterways. Both are special interest groups more interested in pushing a political agenda than science. Want to hear about politics? Talk to a boater that belongs to CFW or a protester in PETA. Want to hear about marine biology? Talk to a marine biologist.

However because of the leftward slant of most places of higher learning you don't think this affects the "experts" opinion and suggestions? I say it has and does.

[bodypilot90 0]

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I assume you mean "solutions to problems" instead of "solutions to ideas." To get good solutions to problems, you have to:

1) understand the problem
2) determine what the solutions are
3) understand the side effects of the solutions
4) pick the solution that solves the problem and has fewest (or least nasty) side effects

You left out understand if there is a problem.