Swoopyswoop 0 #1 May 29, 2003 I have noticed at my local dz over the past few months that swooping and high performance landings have seeemd to increase amongst our regular jumpers. I have also noticed that the newer jumpers and relatively low jumpers have taken notice to it as well. Seems to me that a few us(us refering to me included) have initiated a few low turns and have misjudged distances on our landings. The point I am trying to get at here is that I had a jumper approach me and ask me a question that really made me realize how much the newer jumpers are paying attention to our hook turns and carving turns. Now without mentioning any names here I will pass this question on to you. I was asked " when should I start to flare after I let off the front risers?" My reply was " Dude, you should stay off of your front risers for the time being". Not to doubt this jumpers ability but it really scared the crap out of me when they asked this question to me. I have personally witnessed several low time jumpers severely injure themselves and other bystanders trying these landings. Not only that I have severly injured myself doing these type of landings as well. I am not real sure I answered this persons question correctly or with any honesty at all, but I was hoping to deter any future attempts at a riser turn until they have a full understanding of there canopy and confident enough they can abort a landing in a split second if need be. Any input from some of you guys that may have a better solution to this dilema or a better way for the younger jumpers to fully comprehend the dangers of these type of landings? I didnt want to upset anyone, nor did I want this thread to point out anyone in particular, just an honest answer or sugestions that might be of help to me or someone else if ever put in this position. Okay Andy, I know you have a smart ass reply and you are just itching to post it so go ahead and get it over with "when I die, I want to go like my grandfather while im sleeping, not like the passengers riding in the car with me Swoopster A.S.S. #6 Future T.S.S holder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #2 May 29, 2003 i think you did the right thing.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamesNahikian 0 #3 May 29, 2003 'round here you swoop into the wind or else you end up in Iowa, lately. D. James Nahikian CHICAGO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 May 29, 2003 People are gonna do what they are gonna do. Asking questions like that....yeah...they need to wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 May 29, 2003 I try and use "learning oportunities" to demonstrate that the person asking the questions needs other answers too. Example - When do I start to flair when I get off front risers? Possible questions from you... Depends on how fast you're going. How fast? Really? How do you know? How did you get that fast? How high? What's your technique for retaining the toggles? How do you check for traffic on a downwind approach? What are your outs if you abort? What do you do if you're in the corner? Dude replies... Err, Ahh, yeah well I aproach err. At this point they're usually thinking - I'm not sure, by turning a bit - in my hands? Yeah - traffic... downwind? Out? Out of what? Corner? Jump on the brakes? FUCK! There is a whole lot of info feeding into the brain that makes a good swoop. I wonder if you wrote a program for it - what kind of CPU you'd need to run it realtime.... I run a lottery at my DZ, and we spread the word about who's "most likely to be next" They tend to calm down after that. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #6 May 29, 2003 QuoteNow without mentioning any names here I will pass this question on to you. I was asked " when should I start to flare after I let off the front risers?" My reply was " Dude, you should stay off of your front risers for the time being". Not to doubt this jumpers ability but it really scared the crap out of me when they asked this question to me. Telling a new jumper to stay off the front risers is like telling a 13 year old not to do drugs as you're hitting on a joint. They see you swooping, it looks bad ass, they want to be like you. If you have the time and a bit of skill at coaching/teaching, a better answer to that type question would be to sit down with the newbie and talk about canopy control. If you don't have the time or ability to teach, direct the newbie to someone who does. Anyone who asks those type questions is going to attempt swoop landings. No doubt about it. You told him to stay off his front risers... he may decide to try a low toggle hook to gain speed for his swoop instead. And unless someone steps in and gives him the information he's hungry for - a reasonably safe progression from full flight straight in approaches to 270 front riser hooks, he'll keep doing those low toggle turns until it hurts him. Be a part of the solution. Encourage new jumpers to fly conservative mains so they can learn to swoop without as much risk... and mentor the ones who want to be like you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #7 May 29, 2003 Me? Wise ass? Everyone knows you flare between the powerlines, over the barn, right AS you hit the fence and slide under the van! remember: Fence 5pts. Barn 10pts. Van 25pts. Powerlines 100pts. Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 May 29, 2003 Quote 'round here you swoop into the wind or else you end up in Iowa, lately. If you could plan out a chase vehical and have a couple different camera angles, that'd be kick ass!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 May 29, 2003 QuoteEveryone knows you flare between the powerlines, over the barn, right AS you hit the fence and slide under the van! .....nothing but net.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #10 May 29, 2003 Quote Me? Wise ass? Everyone knows you flare between the powerlines, over the barn, right AS you hit the fence and slide under the van! remember: Fence 5pts. Barn 10pts. Van 25pts. Powerlines 100pts. How much for hitting the cows?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lizzieb 0 #11 May 29, 2003 simply hitting a cow...15 pts. landing on the cow and riding it around...50pts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #12 May 29, 2003 Dude, having just had a conversation with a guy (just freshly recovered from a broken bone as the result of "weird winds" under a highly loaded stilleto) who was trying to tell me how he should get a Xbrace because he has been reading SO MUCH about how these canopies are great and stilletos are "old technology anyway".... I think we are all pissing in the wind here.... they will do what they want, when they want to do it. __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #13 May 29, 2003 Frontal 10pts Land on their back 20pts. Surf on their back 30pts. T-bone them and get a great "MOOOOO" before you black out... 1000pts. The complete point system will be published soon... stay tuned. Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #14 May 29, 2003 If you get two cows on the same swoop can you get 1000 points for the first one and go ahead and cook dinner with the second one?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #15 May 29, 2003 Some of us may be big enough to kill 2 cows on one swoop (i.e. 270lbs exit weight) Beefcake KICK-ASS!!! Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #16 May 29, 2003 I agree with Bytch on this one.. A couple of years ago I asked hooksnswoop the same question. Seeing him plummet that vx60 out of the air at 90 miles an hour makes anyone want to be like hook. When I asked him how to start or how to do that he gave me advice that was usefull instead of telling me I can't do something. It started with my Triathlon150 isn't a swoop canopy. He explained what a recovery arc is and why I would be likely to hurt myself under that canopy trying to hook. He explained the runway on a 180 hook to me so I wouldn't fly myself into the ground again and not have an out. These new jumpers are going to do it. They see someone else do it and they want to. It looks cool. They want to look cool too. So we have to teach them and try to slow them down keeping them out of the ER hoping their bag of experience fills up before their bag of luck runs out. What Bytch said.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #17 May 29, 2003 What's wrong with a 270+lbs exit weight, huh?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 1 #18 May 29, 2003 Quote Some of us may be big enough to kill 2 cows on one swoop (i.e. 270lbs exit weight) Beefcake KICK-ASS!!! And we mustn't forget. Taking out the windsock on landing. Terrestrial Side Salmon crosswind landings. And landing in the tree on the other side of the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lizzieb 0 #19 May 29, 2003 10 Bonus pts. if you say "that wasn't very clever" at the end Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 1 #20 May 29, 2003 Quote 10 Bonus pts. if you say "that wasn't very clever" at the end Only if you get it on video and it was preceeded by a really, really stupid landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornholio 0 #21 May 29, 2003 Quote And we mustn't forget. Taking out the windsock on landing. Um....you talking to me ?? Well, are ya, Punk ?? Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast! Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool! bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skypup 0 #22 May 29, 2003 So how many points if your only a buck-fifty exit weitght and you hit the cow, bounce off, then the cow looks around like "What? Did I just get bitten by a mosquito?"T.S.S # 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To dream great dreams is itself an act of daring. -Eric Shipton & Bill Tilman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skypup 0 #23 May 29, 2003 What about when your landing get edited to add a "boing" every time you bounce? Does that give you bonus points?T.S.S # 5 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To dream great dreams is itself an act of daring. -Eric Shipton & Bill Tilman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #24 May 29, 2003 Serious post gone not so serious. 7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #25 May 29, 2003 I want to be cool and do cool shit man. Why do I have to wait? Cause just jumping out of a plane, pulling, and landing straight in is boring... I need some pizzaz!! I guess the best way to prevent massive carnage is to actually go ahead and explain to the best of your knowledge everything yo can versus just saying "no touchy de risers um-kay"... Even though you know they shouldn't be doing it yet... They did ask you the question so you'd be kind to answer.. I know what your sayin though man I know... Andy I be lookin forward to the new point system for massive carnage landings... We also need some bonus points for how many cow patties you can slide through in one swoop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
