Pilot 117 and Safire 2 119

[degeneration 5]

At the weekend there I got to try out a Safire-1 149 and a Safire-2 119. It was the first time in years that I'd flown anything other than a Pilot. I've used a Pilot 150 and a Pilot 132.

My initial thoughts of the 149 were that it was slower on toggle turns that the Pilots, but much more powerful flare. I can't really stall either of the Pilots even with my arms locked straight down. I think they stall eventually if I hold the fullest flare I can put on it for several seconds. The safire-1 stalled about hip level, and I could feel the flare up to that point being more powerful than I'd felt on either Pilot.

The Safire-2 119 felt a lot more responsive to toggle turns etc than the Pilots, as I was expecting on a smaller canopy, and the flare felt more powerful than the Pilots as well. I really liked that canopy, and was good fun to fly and land.

So that brings me to the question. Prior to jumping the 119, I was thinking that my next step would be to get a Pilot 117 at some point, but that Safire 2 has put doubts in my mind.

Would I experience a similar comparison between the Pilot 117 and the Safire-2 119 as I did between the Pilots and the Safire-1 149, i.e. The Pilot will feel faster and more responsive on toggle turns, but the safire-2 will have a more powerful flare?

Or is it possible that the steering lines on my Pilots are just a few inches too long for me, which is why i'm experiencing a seemingly not as powerful flare? I can still land the Pilots without a problem, but I would love it if they had a similar feeling flare to the Safire-1 and Safire-2 that I tried.

So, how does the Pilot 117 stack up to the Safire-2 119?

I'd have a WL of approx 1.5 on each.

I realise there are a lot of topics discussing pilot vs safire-2, but most in the search results were about 7 or 8 years old so was hoping by now more people have a good amount of experience on both.

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[popsjumper 2]

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Or is it possible that the steering lines on my Pilots are just a few inches too long for me, which is why i'm experiencing a seemingly not as powerful flare?

You've touched on a major issue with the flaring AND the stalling.
In general, brake line length affects both. You couldn't stall the canopy because of the brake line length and that affects your flare also.

You noticed that when you said, "The safire-1 stalled about hip level, and I could feel the flare up to that point being more powerful than I'd felt on either Pilot."


The other questions?
Meh, demo the Pilot 117 and the Safire-2 119 for a side-by-side comparison and keep in mind the difference in brake line length. The manufactured lengths are put there purposely for what the canopy is designed to do, I would imagine.

You'll be getting more precise and more detailed info from jumpers more experienced with those two particular canopies.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dragon2 2]

I've jumped both, at approx. your wingloading, although not many jumps on those particular sizes each. I've got a lot of jumps on safire 1 119, safire 1 135 and pilot 124 though.

I'd say the safire 2 has a bit more powerful flare, has a bit more forward speed and is more responsive to toggles than the pilot. It certainly will dive more than the pilot.

I like both. If I were you I'd demo the (exact same) canopy I was thinking of buying.

Keep in mind the safire 1 is a size smaller than a safire 2 (and pilot), so a safire 1 149 feeling faster than a pilot 150 is to be expected. You could compare it better to the pilot 132 actually.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[billvon 3,119]

>So, how does the Pilot 117 stack up to the Safire-2 119?

I've jumped Safire-2 109's, Pilot 117's and Safire1-129's, and in general I preferred the Safire over the Pilot. Slightly stronger flare, lower front riser pressure and more consistent openings. Currently my primary main is a Crossfire2 109 and my backup main is a Safire1-129 (which BTW is the same size as a Safire2-119; odd I know.)

For some reason I find that Pilots do pretty well down to about the 132 size at my loading (exit weight about 200 lbs) but below that size some of what's nice about them (openings, flare) diminishes a bit.

[degeneration 5]

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Keep in mind the safire 1 is a size smaller than a safire 2 (and pilot), so a safire 1 149 feeling faster than a pilot 150 is to be expected. You could compare it better to the pilot 132 actually.

The bit in bold is the bit I'm commenting on: I found the opposite, I found the Safire-1 149 to be slower on toggle turns than both the pilot 132 and 150. The only thing that was better for me on that Safire was the flare, which felt great. Stall point was a little too soon for my liking, but the power in the flare was great.

I would definitely plan to demo both. Hopefully my friend won't mind me borrowing his Safire-2 119 for a few more jumps, and hopefully I can get somewhere where the aerodyne rep is this year to try out the pilot.

But until that point, opinions from people who've used both are a good thing to whet my appetite for both!

Safire-2's seem to be the favoured at the moment, but if I'm likely to enjoy either, it may be whichever I see available in a decent condition 2nd hand first!!

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[cube 0]

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Stall point was a little too soon for my liking

It's a 5-10 minute job to lenghten the steering lines and remove the problem.