those damn Muslims strike again

[wmw999 2,560]

Awesome post. I bow before the mistress!

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[harryskydives 0]

when they spent years going over there to "kill infidels" during the Crusades.

I think the semantics of what you said is important.
The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.
In other words they were trying to kick the invading Muslims out.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[robskydiv 0]

Wendy, I think you misunderstand the evangeical viewpoint. I hope that you do. "If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight." I hope that the evangelicals don't take those words lightly.

[wmw999 2,560]

Well, they were trying to kick the Muslims out. Whether they were invading, or whether the religion was taking root, or a combination, is probably open to 1000 years of misunderstanding and unwritten history, along with a whole lot of opinions of people with a viewpoint to defend. Since Saudi Arabia is a whole lot closer to Jerusalem than is Europe (where Christianity really blossomed), I have a feeling that Israel wasn't much of a Christian stronghold anyway.

After all, the settlers who moved onto the plains wanted to kick out the Native Americans, too. And called them marauding and invading.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[harryskydives 0]

Making a sweeping statement about one of the worlds biggest religions
Hitler claimed to be a Christian, it doesn't mean we all want to wipe out the Jews.

But The Christian world denounced Hitler and Destroyed his reich. Muslims preach to destroy Both Christians and Jews. Of the 30 some wars going on in the world today most are due to Muslims. How come you do not hear the Muslim leaders speaking out against the "radical" Muslims? If they are a religion of peace then why don't they bring some peace on? I am sure there are many good Muslim people, but they have to stand up and help stop this Jihad. Do not forget flight 93.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[wmw999 2,560]

I've heard both from friends who are or were Evangelicals, as well as a possibly colored session of "60 minutes" express what I said. If that's inaccurate, then something more accurate would be good to hear.

But what I heard was quite clear that while war is bad, the conflict between the Jews and the Palestinians is definitely the close precursor to the final war, Armageddon, and the second coming. The follow-on statement that was made was that the second coming was a good enough thing to look for to consider that the war might not be a bad thing in the long run. For, of course, the saved.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[harryskydives 0]

Do you truly believe western culture is superior specific the Muslim culture?

Maybe you are right. whoses idea was it to let women have jobs, go to school, and vote. Heck if we keep letting women do what they want, some day they may have a 4-way team that kicks ass.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[Steel 0]

The Muslims were definately invading. The religion was not taking root. They were coming from Northern Africa (Morocco to be exact). The Spaniards were definately not converting as a matter of fact they hated them and still do to this day. The ones who were not sent back to Morocco or to Portugal and were left in Spain lived or even to this day still live in the streets as gypsies. The Spaniards were the first to strive to prove purity of blood. I.E. offer up proof that nobody in there family tree ever had anything to do with a Muslim.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,560]

Quote

The Spaniards were the first to strive to prove purity of blood. I.E. offer up proof that nobody in there family tree ever had anything to do with a Muslim.

Ummm. Is that supposed to be a good thing? I think it's appalling.

I think I'll go back to ice cream and boobies.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Steel 0]

I think its a great thing and its the reason why Spain does not have 10-20% Muslims like their neighbors in the North, the whiny liberal French.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[jerry81 10]

Quote

I think its a great thing and its the reason why Spain does not have 10-20% Muslims like their neighbors in the North, the whiny liberal French.

Man, you do go on!
All your comments so far have shown that your opinions on the subject have a fairly strong emotional basis. The 'rational' reasons you give are mostly subjective and selectively gathered to keep your knowledge and your feelings in congruence.
Due to this, it can be safely assumed that nothing that can be said in a discussion in an online forum will cause a change in your way of thinking. I can only wish you as many positive experiences with muslims as possible.

And now, something I feel strongly about....
Boobies! And ice cream! And whipped cream! Oh my!

---

[Tonto 1]

Now that was a cool response. I just get angry when I see people say stuff like he did. If I get angry, how angry to Muslims get?

Anyway. Cool. I learned something today.

It's the year of the Pig.

[Tonto 1]

Hey! It's Iron Mike! Where you been? Are you going back when they ban you again?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Steel 0]

The muslims would get angry reading anything I write. They hate me. But what makes me laugh is that unless your one of them they hate you too! So you can be all nice and pretend you don't see what they are doing and talk about peace with guys like that professor of that Florida University that just got fired a couple of months ago for ties to Al Queda. Meanwhile, he will be gathering up money and information for Al Queda to prepare another attack to kill YOU or someone else just like you. I guess your liberal attitude doesn't make them like you either.
Just something for you to think about.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[freakydiver 0]

I was pondering this thread on the way into work today and have always wondered something. Why is it that we as Americans (and probably alot of other countries as well) feel the need to stick out noses in over there when the problems over there go back way before any of us even existed as people or as a country.

I guess what I'm getting at is, it never seems to help when we try to help out, it only seems to hurt. Why don't we just butt out and let them figure it out?

I'm not trying to be rash or crass here, but seriously, do people over in Palestine and Israel really even want any of our help? Consider me a dumb American when it comes to issues in the middle east...

Blue ones!

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Muenkel 0]

I have stopped following this thread days ago. However, I really wish the title could be changed. Isn't this title very offensive? How would it be taken is it was titled "those damn blacks strike again", or "those damn jews strike again".

Let's not condemn a whole religion or race based on what some whacko radicals do.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Let's not condemn a whole religion or race based on what some whacko radicals do.

Chris

Could not agree with you more Chris, so, I changed it

Unfortunately it only changes my heading and not the heading for the complete thread. Maybe one of the greenies can do that?

[Steel 0]

I agree with you to a certain extent. But you do know if it wasn't for out military aid the Arabs/muslims would have already eaten the Israelis and spit them all out dead. I don't think letting this happen would have been the right thing to do. Remember all Israelis are not like Ari (NeedtoJump). Most of them are very grateful to the U.S.. Just watch Netinyahu talk and you will see this imediately. I guess what I am saying is that they are good allies to have in the region. Muslims don't hate us just because of them. They hate everybody who is not Muslim. Funny thing is I have a Lebonese freind (not Muslim but Arab). We disagree a lot but I have learned a lot from him. He said to me once that the reason there is not democracy in any of the Muslim countries is because the U.S. doesn't want there to be. I questioned it ofcourse but then he explained why. He said in these countries 80% of the population wants nothing more than to come and launch attacks on the U.S.. The general population basically hates us and there is nothing we can do about it. But what we have been able to do is make freinds with one dictator and have him keep his people under reasonable control and that is what we do.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Could not agree with you more Chris, so, I changed it

Thanks Justin. Unfortunately, for it to be completely changed it would have to be done by Steel or a moderator.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[Remster 30]

I think its good that the main title isnt changed. Shows a spade is a spade when it comes to some peoples racism.

Remster

[jerry81 10]

Quote

But what makes me laugh is that unless your one of them they hate you too!

Yes, walking through Sarajevo, for instance, is a bitch with all the spitting and cursing aimed at you.

---

[NeedToJump 0]

Quote

Remember all Israelis are not like Ari (NeedtoJump). Most of them are very grateful to the U.S..

OK, before I respond please tell me, WTF DOES THIS MEAN?!?

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[rendezvous 0]

How come you do not hear the Muslim leaders speaking out against the "radical" Muslims
___________________________________________________________

Because the issue over the past century and more so in the last couple of decades has evolved into much more than just being a religious battle. No doubt there are supports for radical behaviour in the Muslim world, but then there are supports for it in the Christian and the Jeswish communities too. How extreme any of them gets really depends on the prevailing conditions. At the time of the proclamation of the state of Israel there were three jewish extremist groups operating in the region. This was way before the existance of any Palestinian radicalism as know today. The Jewish groups at the time targeted the Bristish and the Arabs in the region and only stopped or were rather dissolved after the creation of the state of Israel. They were no less violent than Hamas today. The point being, the cause behind the Islamic radicalism that we are seeing today goes far beyond the borders of religion. The primary cause is the politics that has played out in the region and in other Islamic regions.
Let's look at another one, Iran. In todays world when Iran is fighting an internal battle to reform itself into a more tolerant society, the US goes and declares it to be part of the so called Axis of Evil. When a country like Iran is precariously placed in it's reforming which largely depends on the people of Iran demanding it from the theocrats, how can those people after being insulted ( Axis of Evil ) by the US be willing to look up to it as a role model. Iranians are good people, most of them want changes in their country, some of them back there are taking risks that you and I wouldn't dream off in this day and age, and in the midst of that we go ahead and call them Evil. That with us is fine but if we are called sons of satan that is offensive to our American identity. Does the common man on the streets of Iran not value his identity. Go talk to them and they'll tell you about the richness of their culture and values, and the pride they have in what we love to insult.
Now take the case of Palestine. We talk a whole lot about suicide bombers being mad men, lunatics etc but have you ever thought about what compells hundreds of men and women to blow themselves up. It's not the thought of going to paradise, it's the feeling of a total loss of hope, and dignity and a sense of helplessness. No doubt Israel has to face a lot of hardships but have you ever noticed the difference in living standards between Israel and the gaza strip. The US gives Israel 3 billion dollars in developmental aid, 2 billion is millitary aid and what do Palestinians get out of it, a false promise to a life that will never be delivered. Let alone money, when Senator Hilliary Clinton on her visit to the region showed soladarity to the people she had to come back and apologise for it for the fear of loosing the Jewish lobby. You tell me what kind of a message that sends out to the world.
The muslim world does not hate us because we are christians it hates us because we go in with a promise and come out on the side were our national interest is served the best. We the biggest proponents of democracy together with a bunch of other western powers have time and again proved to the world that our own interests come above any and everything and if that involves scuttling democracy in certain regions or taking lives in others under whatever pretext, then so be it. The purpose of my writing this is not to debate who is right and who isn't but to touch upon the fact that it's easy to sit here, shielded from the rest of the world and pass sweeping statements above matters that we have very little knowledge off. Our media in the war against Iraq went out of the way to show us that our democracy is sponsored by our cooperate lobby and we hear what they want us too. It's a lobby that has smart enough businessmen in there to understand that if you label something as "Americanly Patriotic" we'll suck it up and give it shelf life until the next elections. It is sad to see that in our media which is suppose to be the bastion of our most basic democratic value, out right to information, money does not just talk it laughs. A result of which is that some of us here feel that every muslim in the world is out to get us and that Islam stands for terrorism. We are paying the price today for what we did all through the era of the 1st and 2nd World War followed by the Cold War and through the period of our world supremacy as the only super power. We have done to people around the world what we wouldn't want to do to our own and it's time we understood our responsibility in this. May be we did it for the good of our own people or what we stand for or may be even for the good of the world in some holistic way but the fact remains we have the cheapest oil in the world and the largest cars, and there's a reason for it ...

[Steel 0]

what does what mean? Are you going to tell me your not aware of all the military assistance that the U.S. provides for Israel? Are you also going to tell me that they are not grateful for this? One way in which they are grateful is acknowledging that there is a problem and that we are on the same side. I.E., not by pretending that there are 2 or 3 three extemeists screwing it up for everybody when they know the problem is the mentality of millions all guided by a religion.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[wmw999 2,560]

I'm just wondering one thing -- Muslims are bad because they "hate us indiscriminately", but we're OK even if we hate them indiscriminately?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)