mchamp 1 #1 February 5, 2012 First off, I love gear!!.....It fascinates me and I enjoy understanding it along with how the small details, changes, and modifications can improve upon things. So listening to Skydive Radio episode 164 (31:20) got me thinking about pilot chute material, sizes, and choices (about to change mine soon). I did do a search and read many articles, but all was info from 2002 aka 10yrs ago and I'm sure many opinions and preferences have changed since then. According to Brian Germain he always uses F-111 for his pilot chute. Sure it doesn't last as long as ZP but he said the following..."ZP slips out too easily, and all the evidence points to the conclusion that the openings are better, more on heading and fewer line twists with f-111 pilot chutes. PD came to the same conclusion"......"Zero P is slicker than snot on a glass door knob" -Brian Germain So with that being said, I'm curious as to the following: What SIZE pilot chute and MATERIAL do you use paired with what size canopy? What kind of "quality" do you look for in a pilot chute? What/whose brand do you use/prefer?For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #2 February 5, 2012 Dude!!! You're in the wrong sport! You should be BASE jumping. In Skydiving the questions should be more like, "Uhhhmmm.... My rigger tells me...." My PC is 75 cm ~29.5 inches. So I guess 29 or 30. It's F111 and pulls out a BT Pro 140 from a Javelin container made for a 150 sqf parachute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #3 February 5, 2012 I've got a 27" F111 PC, works just fine for me! Got it from UPT... hey, they invented the damn thing and since I got a V3 anyway, why not?! "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #4 February 5, 2012 I use a beat up worn out F111 pilot chute that is size "too small". It lends itself nicely to hesitation and then diving line twists on most openings. Really need to get a new one! "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #5 February 5, 2012 Spectre 120 with a 28" ZP PC with a WS bridle. Other various 99-120 sized canopies with a 26" ZP PC with a regular bridle F111 is definitely much easier to pack neater, especially if you have a shitty inelastic "old style" BOC material, but it starts looking/feeling like shit very early on, as opposed to ZP lasting many times over. Not to mention that one is very likely to drag/snag their PC, at which point ZP will hold up a lot better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #6 February 5, 2012 Pilot-chute size - and material - are determined by the weight of your canopy and the speed at which you usually toss your pilot-chute. At the heavy (280 square foot canopy) and slow corner of the envelope, you want a large 36 inches or 1 metre) diameter pilot-chute made of Zero porosity fabric. At the light-weight (100 square foot canopy) and high-speed corner of the envelope, you can get by with a small pilot-chute (maybe 24 inch diameter) made of F-111 fabric. ZP fabric is more durable, but creates a greater jolt as it lifts the d-bag out of the container. OTOH F-111 fabric gives a gentler "lift", and fewer line twists. However, F-111 fabric does not last as long as ZP. Mind you, the single greatest determinant of pilot-chute life is how often you drag it from the landing field to the packing mat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,446 #7 February 6, 2012 Hi champ, Probably the most popular main pilot chutes are the ones made by Jim Cazer. Rumor has it that Larry Chernis is taking over Jim's business and is currently building them. For more info Larry can be reached at: Larry Chernis 18718 CR5739 Castroville, TX 78009 210-313-6342 larry@cherniscreek.com JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #8 February 6, 2012 Many thanks for that info Jerry! Apparently I semi-predicted what PD was going to discuss on one of their newly released videos as well ! haha http://vimeo.com/36038426 11:03For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #9 February 7, 2012 Jim is still in business although I don't know whether or not his business is in transition. I called him with a question about my pilot chute a couple of weeks ago and he told me to send it to him. It wasn't worth fixing so he traded it in on a new one and had it in my mailbox pretty quickly. I got 15 years of service out of my old one. Both of these are 24" 0-P and I'm using them on 129 and sometimes 149 square foot parachutes. My other pilot chute is a Wings 28" 0-P that I typically use on my 149. As a side note, Jim turned out to be one of the nicest guys I've spoken with in a while. He's good people! QuoteHi champ, Probably the most popular main pilot chutes are the ones made by Jim Cazer. Rumor has it that Larry Chernis is taking over Jim's business and is currently building them. For more info Larry can be reached at: Larry Chernis 18718 CR5739 Castroville, TX 78009 210-313-6342 larry@cherniscreek.com JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #10 February 9, 2012 What I'm also curious about is if there is any way of creating an appropriate pilot chute size/fabric chart paired with correctly sized canopies?For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,446 #11 February 10, 2012 Hi champ, Quote What I'm also curious about is if there is any way of creating an appropriate pilot chute size/fabric chart paired with correctly sized canopies? I feel that it is up to the rig mfr. Tony U of Tony Suits once told me he was jumping a main pilot chute of 12" diameter and it worked just fine. I doubt that anyone would say that size is the way to go. My thoughts are worth what you paid for them. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #12 February 10, 2012 Various ideas have been thrown around, but in practice, companies often make only a couple sizes. Custom sized may be available on request. Here's some info I collected years ago, with no guarantee as to quality or that it still applies. It at least gives an idea of the variety of ideas out there: ===== Standard PC on a Javelin is 27" ============ [Atair] [note: they were known for recommending smaller sizes than other companies] Recommended pilot for cobalt 150-170 is a 24" zero-p kill line collapsible. Recommended pilot for Cobalts 65-135 is a 22"-24" zero-p kill line collapsible. NOTE: many containers come standard with a 28-32" pilot. This is more than double the recommended surface area required. A 28” pilot will cause brisk openings especially at higher speeds. =========== [Rigs & Things Paraservice] 24" ZP 27" ZP =========== [RWS] Custom available but normally: 27" ZP 32" F-111 Billbooth 2002: He says they make 24" (on request only), 28" standard, 32" I think for big stuff. But he also recommended: Re: Is Your Hand Deploy Pilot Chute Correctly Made? [In reply to] Quote | Reply I recommend a 28" - 30" ZP pilot chute for canopies from 100 to 220 sq.ft., and a 24" ZP for canopies below 100 sq. ft. We also make a 34" F-111 pilot chute for canopies 200 sq. ft. and larger. ... If you do a lot of head down, and often open above 120 mph, then maybe a smaller pilot chute would be a better choice. =========== [SkyCat gear shop] -- sells Cazer ZP pilot chutes of 24" and 28" in diameter. =========== [PD article] F-111 … should be no more than 34" in diameter. … have found 30" to 32" to be adequate for most sport sized canopies (all measurements are finished dimensions). Pilot chutes made of zero porosity fabric are more sensitive to specific design criteria, and two of similar size may have widely different drag. The zero porosity pilot chutes that we have tried that work adequately are between 26" and 28" and have relatively fine mesh. =========== -[one jumper] Most use 26" ZP or 28-30" F-111. 24" fine for 150 canopy ========== [someone] I fly a Sabre 150. I got a '24 inch pilot chute (zero-P) w/ kill line at Square 1. I thought it was little small but it says right on the package that it is for 150sq ft and smaller. They also sold a 28' inch for 170sq or higher. =========== [NickNitro]: I never did buy the argument big PC = hard opening. I like to stay on the bigger side. This is what I like: Anything up to 135-150 = 28" 150-190 = 30" 210 + = 32" ============== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #13 February 21, 2012 Many thanks for that amazing bunch of gathered information you gave there. Went back and read all of Mr. Booth's articles regarding being correctly made or not Off to buy a new PC! Forgot to mention..... I currently jump a 26" ZP that was on a 150 and now its coupled with a 120For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
