round reserves - packing tray folding methods?

[pchapman 280]

Here's a question that's almost History & Trivia but I thought I'd try here. It's something a rigger from the late 70s or the 1980s might answer.

How common was it to follow manufacturer's instructions for complex methods of folding a round reserve into a piggyback container, versus just folding side to side?

The reason I ask is that sometimes I'd find a round reserve just folded side to side, when the rig's manual specified something more complex, with folds in a complex pattern both up/down and left/right all over the pack tray.

The traditional way to pack a round in a pack tray was side to side, starting at the bottom and going up (towards the shoulder end of the rig). Sometimes even if there was a more complex method, riggers reverted to the "default" side to side method. By the time round reserves were getting rarer, that might have occurred just because no manual could be found.

But was it seen as acceptable by riggers to use the side to side packing as a default method, even if not actually in a particular rig's manual? Or to be more precise, to what extent was that true for some and not true for others?

After all, I bet most riggers have a standard way of flaking a square reserve, and don't change their method according to every reserve parachute manual which is slightly different.

For some rigs where the reserve container isn't just a roughly rectangular block, pack tray folding in an "advanced" way makes sense for bulk distribution. That applies to pilot emergency rigs (where the folding can be complex) and a rig such as the Racer (which tapered a lot at the top and benefited from a well in the middle).

[councilman24 37]

Pre-internet it was harder to know what was 'acceptable' to other riggers unless you saw it in person.

I'm trying to figure out what containers your talking about? SST/Racers needed to go by the manual to get them in appropriately. Same thing with a Javelin. I followed the manual. IF your talking about skydiving rigs I'd guess side to side when the manual said something else was done my someone who didn't know better.

All of the internal pilot chute rigs I'd follow the manual also, usually back and forth. Northern lites, Wonderhogs, NAA condor, and a few odd balls were about all I saw. Racer's and Javelins by the manual U shaped.

If your referring to pilot rigs I followed the manual but some, like the softie manual, had various versions for various sizes and types. And at various times there was FTF discussion that said it really didn't matter. But almost always went by the appropriate manual.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Peter,

Quote

The traditional way to pack a round in a pack tray was side to side, starting at the bottom and going up

Well, that might be the 'traditional' method to you young'ns ( see attached photo ), but us older folks would say that the traditional method would be to stack the canopy up-on top of itself as in most surplus military chest packs & most 'style' type of chest packs.



But you bring up a very good point; and I am with Terry on this.

JerryBaumchen

PS) Terry, you should recognize that photo.

[pchapman 280]

@ councilman

I wasn't thinking of any particular rig. Just curious about what the attitudes were about this issue.

And you know a variety of old rigs better -- you're saying the issue didn't come up that much anyway, because there were (a) plenty of rigs that did side to side anyway, or else (b) they had a very tapered shape where another technique clearly made more sense.

After thinking about it, I realize that I was probably influenced by a rig that was once very common in my area, being locally produced in Canada, but would not have been found in the USA. That was the Westway Innovator, the original two pin version. The manual showed side to side for lines-in-pack-tray canopies, but for full diapers, a more rather complex arrangement. Most people had diapered rounds in theirs, and from the occasional one I saw open, I think riggers usually just packed them side to side "like everything else".

@ Jerry
Yeah you're right about that.
The change from the 'stack' to the 'bottom to top of rig' perhaps made sense to make flatter containers, and also would work better once going to canopies which would pack really skinny, like a diapered Phantom. A vertical stack would be too narrow unless the canopy lengthwise folds were spread out more (as is done for some pilot rigs).

(Rounds are on my mind as I just packed a Phantom into a guy's Vector I and will soon pack a T-10R MIRPS for a customer...)

[councilman24 37]

The arrangement for the diapered canopy may have been to offset the bulk in the corner and make the PC sit flat. Couldn't find that manual. Packing it from side to side probably was doing the jumper a favor.

Considering that fitting a 24' flat in an original SST, or a just like today the largest round that would fit in a Racer made them tough to get in and look good. Pretty much had to do most buy the manual. Of course the first Northern lite manual I have doesn't have ANY drawings in it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[obelixtim 150]

Often it was a case of packing it in such a way to fit the shape of the container and distribute the material evenly to get the finished job looking nicely. I never found that it affected the deployment whichever way it went in.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[obelixtim 150]

Quote

Well, that might be the 'traditional' method to you young'ns ( see attached photo ), but us older folks would say that the traditional method would be to stack the canopy up-on top of itself as in most surplus military chest packs & most 'style' type of chest packs.

The alternate (and better) way IMO, in the days of hand deployed reserves was to roll pack the reserve, you could get a much better grip on the canopy and throw it a lot more cleanly....

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[riggerrob 643]

I'll see if I can find my copy of the Innovator 1 manual, but ... what you described reminds me of the way we used to pack original Phantoms into National Warp III containers.

The original Phantom (round reserve) had a very wide, Type 3 diaper. All the lines were stowed (horizontally) on the diaper.
National changed to a narrower (Type 3) diaper circa 1985.

When in doubt, pack in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

[pchapman 280]

@ riggerrob

I have a scanned copy of the Innovator I manual if you really need it, but you probably have one somewhere.

@ councilman

FWIW, the Innovator I method was logical enough for getting evenly distributed bulk. They had the diaper, eg for a Phantom, at the center bottom, with the canopy going up towards the shoulders between the two closing loop locations. Then it wrapped over to the left side for some folds, across the top, and then some more folds at the right. Nicely balanced with the diaper in the centre, but more complex than just side to side.

... And it looks like the Warp III did the same for diapered rounds, and also side to side if undiapered. I'd guess the Innovator could have copied that.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes,
That looks like the Warp III manual for early Phantoms ... with the wide diaper.
If anyone asked me to repack a Phantom that old ... I would have a good laugh!

Back during the mid-1980s, National was mailing out free diapers, just to encourage owners to switch to the narrower style.

[jimjumper 25]

I've packed mine, a Warp III with a 28' Phantom, a few times during my rigging course. After the diaper change, then the kevlar lateral band mod, I found out that it also was in the batch that might have acid mesh. It's what convinced me buy a suqare reerve! With all the tests and checks needed on the rig it's a great packing training aid. The drawing shown looks pretty much what my Warp III packing manual shows.