Shotgun 1 #1 June 24, 2003 http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/06/23/ED301407.DTL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 June 24, 2003 Along the same lines of my classification system for leaders -- incredible dufus or diabolical genius AKA "Pinky and The Brain Conundrum" -- sometimes it's difficult to figure out which side of the line Bush is on. However, according to THIS SLATE ARTICLE he may actually be both.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #3 June 24, 2003 QuoteGod I want to believe in our government, but sometimes I wonder Never put your trust in a governmental body. You can have faith that a system of government will be good, but don't trust the institution. That was the idea behind the formation of this country. Checks and balances were built in so that no one institution would have absolute power. Unfortunately the current state of political party financing, the power of lobbyists, and the manipulation of the media have weakened those checks and balances to a point where when one political party leads all three branches, it's tantamount to an oligarchy. If O'Conner does step down, that's exactly what will happen. Republican president, republican congress, republican supreme court. Ok, now I'm scaring myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #4 June 24, 2003 If only we had Pinky and the Brain as leaders... what a wonderful world it would be ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 June 24, 2003 What are we going to do tonight, Keely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #6 June 24, 2003 QuoteWhat are we going to do tonight, Keely? Well I don't know... Are you in Perris??? I'm slammin' down the whiskey myself... trying to forget about what a fucked up world I live in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,154 #7 June 24, 2003 The only time I'm really worried is when everyone _does_ blindly believe in the government. As long as we always question it, take the time to research what's really going on, who's lying and who's not - democracy will survive. The day we say "Hey, Big Government, it's a scary world out there - why don't you take over and protect us?" is the day that we will lose what makes this country great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #8 June 24, 2003 You're supposed to say.... Same thing we do every night, Kevin. Try to take over the world!!! You've been demoted to Pinky, I'm now Brain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 June 24, 2003 QuoteWhat are we going to do tonight, Keely? Same thing we do everynight . . . post whore on dz.com.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 June 24, 2003 QuoteThe only time I'm really worried is when everyone _does_ blindly believe in the government. As long as we always question it, take the time to research what's really going on, who's lying and who's not - democracy will survive. The day we say "Hey, Big Government, it's a scary world out there - why don't you take over and protect us?" is the day that we will lose what makes this country great. I was raised to believe that participation in the political system is a duty, not a privelage. Lots of people tell me that they don't vote, or don't get involved because they don't understand the issues or don't have time to keep up. Sure, that's their perogative, but it still kind of cheeses me off. The least you can do in payment for the liberty that we do enjoy is to take an interest in current events and get your ass to a polling booth every 6 months. People are more dedicated to their teeth than they are to their freedom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #11 June 24, 2003 Oops, sorry Kev, I screwed up... Now let's do the same thing we do every night - try to take over the world!!! But you can be Brain if you want - I'm pretty stupid most of the time ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #12 June 24, 2003 QuoteThe only time I'm really worried is when everyone _does_ blindly believe in the government. As long as we always question it, take the time to research what's really going on, who's lying and who's not - democracy will survive. The day we say "Hey, Big Government, it's a scary world out there - why don't you take over and protect us?" is the day that we will lose what makes this country great. Well said Bill ;-) I just wish there was a way to find out what's really going on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #13 June 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhat are we going to do tonight, Keely? Same thing we do everynight . . . post whore on dz.com. Hey now... I'm talking serious stuff here! Or maybe I'm just post-whoring... Who knows??? ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,154 #14 June 24, 2003 >I just wish there was a way to find out what's really going on! Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job already. I try to occasionally look at foreign news sources, like the BBC or The Australian. They have a more impartial view of what's going on here than FOX or CNN. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #15 June 24, 2003 QuoteI just wish there was a way to find out what's really going on! It helps to not vote for politicians that conduct meetings, trials, and other "business" in secret and refuse to allow any information to be let out because of "national security"illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #16 June 25, 2003 QuoteThe only time I'm really worried is when everyone _does_ blindly believe in the government. Of course we also have the criticize_everything_the_government_does mentality. It is easier than actually supporting anything actually going on. If this person's proposed plan, opinion, etc is actually being implemented then there is a chance it might fail. We wouldn't want that now would we? It is a lot easier to just criticize and complain. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #17 June 25, 2003 QuoteThe only time I'm really worried is when everyone _does_ blindly believe in the government. As long as we always question it, take the time to research what's really going on, who's lying and who's not - democracy will survive. That's exactly it Bill. All government is inherently evil from the get go, because human nature includes the urge for the powerful to control everything. At least in a democracy there's a chance for the governed to dig in their heels and try to do something about it. It's not the perfect rosey picture they painted for us as children, but it does try to provide institutions and mechanisms for people to fight for their freedoms (courts, the Congress, voting, etc). But nobody gets handed their freedom - not even in a democracy. You only get the chance to stand up and claim it. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #18 June 25, 2003 yeah our government sucks, they all do. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 June 25, 2003 Well, our government sucks, but a little less than some other governments do. Of course, it all depends on your metric.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,154 #20 June 25, 2003 >Of course we also have the criticize_everything_the_government_does >mentality. It is easier than actually supporting anything actually going on. Right. Governments are neither inherently good nor inherently evil. They are, in large part, a reflection of what people want. As always, you have to very careful when you decide what you want - because you just might get it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,154 #21 June 25, 2003 > All government is inherently evil from the get go, because human > nature includes the urge for the powerful to control everything. I don't think that's true. It's not inherently evil, it just tends towards totalitarianism in the absence of any moderating force (i.e. our participation.) Of course, maybe that's the same thing that you're saying. The things that really worry me are the students that get arrested in the US and thrown into secret military prisons, the convicted felons running computerized wiretapping systems, all the little losses of freedom that we are just fine with because "we're at war against terror." The rights we lose when those things happen won't come back, ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #22 June 25, 2003 if you stripped government away you would have to exterminate every human being. Government is just a fancy way of saying how we rule each other. Thats been happening while we were still developing primates. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 June 25, 2003 One way to have faith in a governmental process or ideal is to not hold so much faith in an editorial from a person who walks so far to the left they can't see the center. May I recommend the following sites which provide far less conjecture: www.bbc.co.uk www.arabnews.com www.foxnews.com www.cnn.com By themselves, these sources would skew any perspective, taken together, you are given a broad picture with the tools to find as much detail as you want. On top of that, reading actual news, versus editorials will help also. Citing no sources (or sources like the "Chicago Daily Law Bulletin") or first name only, your noted article communicates such a broad casualty rate that one might see dead bodies to Christmas for cryin' out loud. Now where the hell do I wash all these chunks of bleeding heart off my computer screen.... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,154 #24 June 25, 2003 > if you stripped government away you would have to exterminate every > human being. There were human beings before government. There are people in the world right now who live without any visible government. Fear is the primary motivation that gives rise to government - fear of harm, fear of change, fear of exposure to the outside world. Besides, listen to the above statement. "you would have to exterminate every human being?" I wouldn't have to. Would you exterminate them all? Would "they?" Since "they" is usually another government or governing organization, the premise doesn't hold. >Government is just a fancy way of saying how we rule each other. Thats > been happening while we were still developing primates. Government is a central repository of power. There are plenty of ways to follow rules without government; look at how our economy works. We seem to prefer a centralized ruling body when it comes to our government. I think that wanting a king is a natural desire in a great many people. Look at all the people who rally behind the president, and who will brook no dissent of his actions - this, in a system where the president is supposed to be just an administrator, the head of the least powerful branch of our government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #25 June 25, 2003 QuoteThats been happening while we were still developing primates. Oh man, you don't even wanna go there. Although, there would be certain benefits. Good book on bonobos and their politics.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
