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SBS 0
A) Although a mentally retarded person may KNOW the concept of right and wrong, does not mean that they understand it, or the consequences of their actions. But, someone's IQ quotient is not enough to know how their mind works, just the strength at which it does.
B) Do you think then, that anybody who kills anybody should be executed, regardless of circumstance? I definitely think that she did something wrong, but don't know that she deserves to die for it. Rehab, prison, etc., yes...death, I don't think so.
-S
B) Do you think then, that anybody who kills anybody should be executed, regardless of circumstance? I definitely think that she did something wrong, but don't know that she deserves to die for it. Rehab, prison, etc., yes...death, I don't think so.
-S
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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I also don't need to see her die for satisfaction, but it is a just punishment, I think.
That's contradictory.
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I don't feel this is contradictory, because I don't feel better when someone dies. To tell you the truth, I feel that execution is murder as well. But I also believe, to a point, an eye for an eye.
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Mentally retarded people are closer to being childlike in their capacity to learn and understand than they are to being adults, even after reaching chronological adulthood.
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I agree that, under many circumstances, a mentally retarded person is not responsible like a normal adult. And I'm not saying that there aren't better forms of punishment than death for someone like that. What I am saying is that the law in TX is indiscriminatory in this way; everyone has an equal threat of death, and whether that is a consideration they take before committing such a horrible crime is completely irrelevant.
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It gives a sense of satisfaction and finality to a reprehensible crime.
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Yes, in many cases, the public's knowledge that someone is going to be executed for their transgressions is soothing, and I think that is part of the issue. It keeps the public in order from that perspective.
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Blondes do have more fun!
That's contradictory.
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I don't feel this is contradictory, because I don't feel better when someone dies. To tell you the truth, I feel that execution is murder as well. But I also believe, to a point, an eye for an eye.
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Mentally retarded people are closer to being childlike in their capacity to learn and understand than they are to being adults, even after reaching chronological adulthood.
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I agree that, under many circumstances, a mentally retarded person is not responsible like a normal adult. And I'm not saying that there aren't better forms of punishment than death for someone like that. What I am saying is that the law in TX is indiscriminatory in this way; everyone has an equal threat of death, and whether that is a consideration they take before committing such a horrible crime is completely irrelevant.
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It gives a sense of satisfaction and finality to a reprehensible crime.
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Yes, in many cases, the public's knowledge that someone is going to be executed for their transgressions is soothing, and I think that is part of the issue. It keeps the public in order from that perspective.
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Blondes do have more fun!
B) Do you think then, that anybody who kills anybody should be executed, regardless of circumstance?
-S
-S
I do NOT think that anyone necessarily deserves to be killed, including the death penalty. I see the death penalty as murder. Justified? It's debatable because, as I said before, I believe in an eye for an eye, to a point. What I don't believe is that I have a right to kill someone because they have done so themselves. Having said that, I won't fault a jury for sentencing someone to death, and I won't fault the government for carrying out that sentence.
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Blondes do have more fun!
QuoteI won't fault a jury for sentencing someone to death, and I won't fault the government for carrying out that sentence.
Neither will I, because that's the laws they're working under. But I'd like to see them changed.
SBS 0
But I also believe, to a point, an eye for an eye.
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To a point???
Doesn't that phrase imply that there is a limit to how far you believe in "an eye for an eye"? Exactly how much more extreme can it get???
-S
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To a point???
Doesn't that phrase imply that there is a limit to how far you believe in "an eye for an eye"? Exactly how much more extreme can it get???
-S
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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
Slappie 9
Bleeding heart liberals.. If you kill someone, the only just reward or sentence if found guilty should be death. I'm not talking about the way we do it now. Where the sentenced person has an automatic apeal. They should take them out a week later and fry the fucks. Hey, we may get some innocents, 9 outa 10 times the person getting the needle deserves it. I bet'cha it would deffinetly put a stop to violent crime. To know if you commit murder and are found guilty your going to die.. The present way it's set up is crap and cost us taxpayers way to much money. Do the crime do the time whether it be with your life or years off it..
I also think (since I'm on my soap box). Add rapist, pediphiles and drug pushers who are caught selling to minors. To the list of offences able to be punished by death.
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."
I also think (since I'm on my soap box). Add rapist, pediphiles and drug pushers who are caught selling to minors. To the list of offences able to be punished by death.
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."
tbrown 26
[State sponsored killing to make people feel good is pretty despicable, IMO. I'm not a passivist bleeding heart. Killing someone to stop them from hurting you, no problem with that. There are a couple people that I've personally felt needed to be killed in revenge for their actions. But that's a personal emotion and I didn't act on it. The state is just sanitizing the same thing and making it easier for people to swallow because it's "the law". But morally, it just comes down to revenge.
This just in - she's guilty. The jury convicted her of murder in less than an hour of deliberations. The state is NOT seeking the death penalty, but is going for life imprisonment.
Even revenge can be a motive, but capital punishment is just not good public policy and it isn't good law. There are too many mistakes. Most of these crimes are highly emotional, the killimng of a child, elderly woman, police officer, etc and people want revenge so badly they're glad to kill off any derelict who had the misfortune to be camping in the area that night. It's just plain stupid. It doesn't lower the crime rate, it doesn't put a roof over anyone's head, get a child an education, or save a single job from going overseas to wherever it is they're going. It just gives the asshole politicians a bloody shirt to wave on election day so that the average moron will get an erection and vote for them.
My dad was a jury foreman on a murder trial in Boston about 8 years ago. MA didn't have the death penalty in those days (they do now). It was a complicated case, based on circumstantial evidence. He told me it was so much easier to focus on the facts and not have to worry about whether he was making a mistake that could cost another person his life.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
rehmwa 2
I'd consider punishment/death penalty/imprisonment to have several reasons:
1 - Removing a potential threat from society
2 - deterence of other potential offenders from committing the same crime
3 - "Closure" for the victims
4 - Rehabilitation of the criminal
5 - Social engineering (both right and left wing social self-gratification)
6 - Sense of justice or satisfaction to the general public
The only one that makes any sense is the 1st one. Maybe a little of the second. The rest is just a bunch of hoohaw and fake-intellectual crap. That's why intent, etc. is only valid in terms of one question "are they likely to repeat this behavior?"
Until the facts come out, I'd guess this "lady" didn't stop to help because she was already breaking several laws. She chose to place her own comfort over the life of a stranger.
She has the potential to do it again, regardless of remorse or not. She will continue drug use and therefore, will likely put herself in the position for it to happen again. Therefore, she should be removed from society (prison or death, whatever).
Legal types - In some states isn't killing someone while drunk automatically treated as murder rather than manslaughter - with all the increased potential punishment therein? I thought it was.
I like the Texas posters (Aggie and Blondie) - follow the facts and do the right thing - even if it is personally distasteful. It shows a sense of right and backbone.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
1 - Removing a potential threat from society
2 - deterence of other potential offenders from committing the same crime
3 - "Closure" for the victims
4 - Rehabilitation of the criminal
5 - Social engineering (both right and left wing social self-gratification)
6 - Sense of justice or satisfaction to the general public
The only one that makes any sense is the 1st one. Maybe a little of the second. The rest is just a bunch of hoohaw and fake-intellectual crap. That's why intent, etc. is only valid in terms of one question "are they likely to repeat this behavior?"
Until the facts come out, I'd guess this "lady" didn't stop to help because she was already breaking several laws. She chose to place her own comfort over the life of a stranger.
She has the potential to do it again, regardless of remorse or not. She will continue drug use and therefore, will likely put herself in the position for it to happen again. Therefore, she should be removed from society (prison or death, whatever).
Legal types - In some states isn't killing someone while drunk automatically treated as murder rather than manslaughter - with all the increased potential punishment therein? I thought it was.
I like the Texas posters (Aggie and Blondie) - follow the facts and do the right thing - even if it is personally distasteful. It shows a sense of right and backbone.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Quote9 outa 10 times the person getting the needle deserves it.
Murders from 1982-2001: 404,144
Forcible rape: 1,878,691
Mean pop during that time: 255,000,000
So, just including those two of your death punishable crimes, 1 out of every 404,000 people would be put to death every 20 years. And 228,000 of them would be innocent. Better hope you're not one of them.
tbrown 26
Yeah you better not hope you're one of them. Because if you can't afford a top gun attorney, being in the wrong place at the wrong time can land you on death row. Not many people can afford the likes of Gerry Spence.
What slays me is that the same people who won't trust the government to so much as deliver the mail are willing to let that same incompetent government take a person's life. It's like givng a six year old a loaded Magnum and telling him to go out and play with it.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
What slays me is that the same people who won't trust the government to so much as deliver the mail are willing to let that same incompetent government take a person's life. It's like givng a six year old a loaded Magnum and telling him to go out and play with it.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
QuoteThe only one that makes any sense is the 1st one. Maybe a little of the second. The rest is just a bunch of hoohaw and fake-intellectual crap.
1 - Removing a potential threat from society
2 - deterence of other potential offenders from committing the same crime
I agree. Your numbers 3 and 6 are the only reasons for the death penalty. 1 and 2 can be met with life imprisonment.
This is a reply to no one in particular.
It often amazes me that those who so vehemently argue for Christianity can support the death penalty. What happened to "Thou shalt not kill?" What happened to "Turn the other cheek?" Or does basing morality on scripture only apply when it is convenient?
It often amazes me that those who so vehemently argue for Christianity can support the death penalty. What happened to "Thou shalt not kill?" What happened to "Turn the other cheek?" Or does basing morality on scripture only apply when it is convenient?
A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All
SBS 0
It's a misinterpretation of the scripture based on convenience.
-S
-S
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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
What happened to "Thou shalt not kill?" What happened to "Turn the other cheek?" Or does basing morality on scripture only apply when it is convenient?
"Thou shalt not kill" applies; I understand your point there. "Turn the other cheek"--that refers to when someone says something insulting or perhaps borrows something without permission. If someone came along and murdered your son or daughter, could you honestly say that you would turn the other cheek? There's a limit to that; perhaps eventually there could be forgiveness, but you would never forget or "turn the other cheek".
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Blondes do have more fun!
SBS 0
If someone came along and murdered your son or daughter, could you honestly say that you would turn the other cheek? There's a limit to that; perhaps eventually there could be forgiveness, but you would never forget or "turn the other cheek".
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That is EXACTLY the point. (according to scripture) We are supposed to strive to be like god, to live through love and transcend our humanity which would prevent us from "turning the other cheek". Just because we are not capable, doesn't mean that it is not the perfection for which we are meant to strive.
-S
PS - Mind you that this arguement is based on the acceptance of scripture and its teachings, and does not necessarily reflect my personal beliefs.
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That is EXACTLY the point. (according to scripture) We are supposed to strive to be like god, to live through love and transcend our humanity which would prevent us from "turning the other cheek". Just because we are not capable, doesn't mean that it is not the perfection for which we are meant to strive.
-S
PS - Mind you that this arguement is based on the acceptance of scripture and its teachings, and does not necessarily reflect my personal beliefs.
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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...
QuoteTurn the other cheek"--that refers to when someone says something insulting or perhaps borrows something without permission
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
For the record, I am not Christian.
But I know how to read: "To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well." I don't see any part where it mentions saying anything insulting or borrowing other people's things without permission.
But I know how to read: "To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well." I don't see any part where it mentions saying anything insulting or borrowing other people's things without permission.
A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
To set the record straight, I feel that society as a whole is imperfect, and that the government is imperfect and that is because, ultimately, humans are imperfect.
The passage you quote is a passage I know well, and one that, in theory, I would totally agree with. However, the reason that this cannot be reality is because of human imperfection. Trust me, I would love to see the world as that passage describes, and I do pray for all mankind, good and "evil". So, I see your point.
That doesn't change my opinion that perhaps some people deserve the death penalty, although far be it from me to claim to be the best judge of character. As I said, nobody's perfect, and least of all me!
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Blondes do have more fun!
Here's another to consider:
"And The Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
Basically saying that everyone should be given the chance to repent, the death penalty destroys that possibility. Not only are you taking their life, but possibly condemning their soul according to Christian belief.
Will God forgive our sins against Him if we don't forgive those who sin against us?
Matthew 6:15
"And The Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher, forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
Basically saying that everyone should be given the chance to repent, the death penalty destroys that possibility. Not only are you taking their life, but possibly condemning their soul according to Christian belief.
Will God forgive our sins against Him if we don't forgive those who sin against us?
Matthew 6:15
QuoteI feel that society as a whole is imperfect, and that the government is imperfect and that is because, ultimately, humans are imperfect.
About the best reason I can think of for banning the death penalty. The stakes in death are far to great to be decided by an imperfect government.
A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All
QuoteThe stakes in death are far to great to be decided by an imperfect government.
Yeah, but if I catch you trying to commit a crime in my house or on my property at night, then I will take care of the death penalty with a nice grouping.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
Basically saying that everyone should be given the chance to repent, the death penalty destroys that possibility. Not only are you taking their life, but possibly condemning their soul according to Christian belief.
Will God forgive our sins against Him if we don't forgive those who sin against us?
Matthew 6:15
Will God forgive our sins against Him if we don't forgive those who sin against us?
Matthew 6:15
Okay, the reason I don't agree with that is simply because I don't believe in condemnation of the soul. Why? Because, Christian or not, most faiths believe in a kind, loving God. Why would God punish you further than to take away life--his most precious gift--by sending your soul somewhere to be tormented eternally?
Having said that, and setting personal religious beliefs aside, Matt 6:15 is an excellent scripture to prove your point, and I concede to you on that. However, I will remind you that, in order for some people (not myself) to forgive another, the death penalty will come into play.
I still don't believe it's appropriate in all situations, but it burns my ass that this woman let this man suffer for so long when it would have been so easy to make a phonecall. It would also have saved her a whole shitload of trouble.
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Blondes do have more fun!
That's contradictory. Your sense of justice is why you believe it is right to kill, but that goes directly to your sense of satisfaction. You feel that way because it makes you feel better. You're not alone, it would make me feel better too. It gives a sense of satisfaction and finality to a reprehensible crime. But there are other things that would make me feel good that I don't do because they're morally wrong.
Yes, they may know what they did was wrong, but they don't have an appreciation for the true consequences of their actions. This is a problem for 2 reasons. First, the potential for the death penalty is not a deterrent for most murderers, but especially for the retarded. They don't have the mental capacity to put together their actions and their potential death. And secondly, they often can't differentiate between levels of "wrong" or appreciate the concept of death. They may think what they're doing is no more bad than sneaking cookies from the kitchen before dinner. And then there's also the issue that their mental capacity prevents them from aiding in their own defense. Maybe they could produce proof of their innocence that is never raised at trial because they don't know enough to tell their attorney.
Mentally retarded people are closer to being childlike in their capacity to learn and understand than they are to being adults, even after reaching chronological adulthood. The definition of an adult being a person who not only can determine right from wrong, but who has the knowledge and understanding and mental ability to make independent decisions in living.
Let us show our humanity by not executing mentally retarded adults who commit crimes. The population can be protected, and justice can be served by removing the mentally retarded adult criminal to a location away from society.
From a religious perspective, even though I don't personaly buy into it, you're removing the opportunity that someone may have of seeking redemption from God for their crimes by taking their life.
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