DJL 235 #51 June 30, 2003 I’m saying it’s an ignorant 1950’s scare tactic."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #52 June 30, 2003 QuoteI’m saying it’s an ignorant 1950’s scare tactic. So what, if it works?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #53 June 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteI’m saying it’s an ignorant 1950’s scare tactic. So what, if it works? But it doesn't. In fact that's what encourages drug use. If you tell someone that they're going to go stark raving mad and get unknowingly pregnant from smoking pot, and they they try it and find out that claim is false, will they believe you about the real dangers of heroin? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #54 June 30, 2003 >The other choice for those activities does not include associating with > armed criminals, gang members, rapists, robbers and other general > opportunists. What are you talking about? Under the above proposal you still have to buy drugs from the rapists, robbers etc - the government just provides you with a safe place to do it. Unless you know something that wasn't in the article. >So how does reducing these other risks encourage use? They're not >deterring it now. I personally know a dozen people who decided never to do drugs simply because they did not want to get arrested. So it _is_ deterring people now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #55 June 30, 2003 >This is like that commercial where the daughter gets pregnant becaue she did pot. Or like the commercial that shows the teenagers killed by drunk driving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #56 June 30, 2003 And if a addict were deciding where to shoot up then would you rather that they do so in an ally or a clinic. Can we all agree that people ARE going to do drugs?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #57 June 30, 2003 QuoteIf you tell someone that they're going to go stark raving mad and get unknowingly pregnant from smoking pot, and they they try it and find out that claim is false, will they believe you about the real dangers of heroin? What Kev said. I will be honest, finding out that some of the anti-drug propaganda was untruthful did make an impact on some of my decisions when I was younger.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #58 June 30, 2003 No, drunk driving is an actual problem. Pot = Teen pregnancy is BS. Am I still on the heroin thread? I forgot."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #59 June 30, 2003 QuoteWhat are you talking about? Under the above proposal you still have to buy drugs from the rapists, robbers etc - the government just provides you with a safe place to do it. Ok, choice A) buy drugs on street, go to safe house and get high. Use a clean needle and if you OD you'll get medical attention. And if you feel like you want to stop, talk to someone there that can help you. b) buy drugs on street, do to crack house and get high. Share a rusty needle with the aids infected prostitute you meet in there. If you OD, you're left for dead while others run away. If you feel like you want to stop, talk to the junkie prostitute or the guy in the corner frothing at the mouth. Quote personally know a dozen people who decided never to do drugs simply because they did not want to get arrested. I doubt it. I bet they decided not to do them because they were raised well and decided that getting high wasn't what they were interested in. They might have said that was their reason so they didn't look "uncool". Do you believe any of those dozen people would have gone and shot up some heroin if there was a safe house? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #60 June 30, 2003 QuoteAre smoking rooms the first step to elimination of smoking? Are legal BASE sites the first step towards elimination of BASE? Are bars the first step towards elimination of alcoholism? Odd statement. What is the intent of smoking rooms, BASE sites and bars? It's not to help, but to simply provide an environment to engage in the activity where it does not harm others. A "safe house" is aimed at eradicating the use of drugs. Whether this particular implementation will be effective, we will have to wait and see. Seems to me that by simply treating the addict humanely and giving him a pamphlet to read every time s/he comes in to the "safe house" can already start the process of building trust between us and the community of drug addicts. Once this trust is established, it will be possible to exert some form of control over the drugs. Perhaps this will ultimately transform the drug use of today into "booze and crack" bars where people use a harmless form of the drug in a controlled environment, much like they use alcohol today. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #61 June 30, 2003 >And if a addict were deciding where to shoot up then would you rather >that they do so in an ally or a clinic. I would rather they not do it. If I had my choice where they were going to do it, I'd rather it be in their own home, not in a clinic paid for by the government. >Can we all agree that people ARE going to do drugs? Of course. People are going to kill, steal, rape, masturbate, have unsafe sex etc no matter what the law (or common sense) says. That does not mean we need the government to provide safe places to do any of the above. Take the alternative. Should the government provide dormitories so underage (but consenting) kids can have sex, and provide condoms etc to cut down on teen pregnancy and HIV transmission? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #62 June 30, 2003 Hey, you're right, if it works for one person then it was worth it. I'd rather the money be spent on something a bit more realistic but I don't have much sway with the 40 year old bureaucrats who come up with this crap."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #63 June 30, 2003 QuoteShould the government...provide condoms etc to cut down on teen pregnancy and HIV transmission? yes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #64 June 30, 2003 Choice c) buy bad drugs, take them in governmental clinic, suffer liver failure and die. (Or should the government provide free 100% safe drugs to all?) Choice d) buy from dealer, use clean needle at home. >I doubt it. I bet they decided not to do them because they were > raised well and decided that getting high wasn't what they were > interested in. No, they were quite interested in them; they were afraid of the legal consequences. This was a high school where a lot of the kids were from very well to do families. They had the money and the desire but were afraid. >Do you believe any of those dozen people would have gone and shot >up some heroin if there was a safe house? They would have started on mescaline, but yes, they would have done mescaline if they had a place to do it safely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #65 June 30, 2003 You sure? What is the percentage of girls that got unintentionally pregnant when stoned versus not stoned? What is the real risk of completely tuning out when stoned? Ironically, Alcohol = Teen pregnancy is not BS. I really doubt you haven't seen guys pressuring girls to drink because they want to get laid. I've seen enough of that to be sick to my stomach, myself. Now let me see if I can find that article. The point is, if we want to be a truly good society, then we need to accept that pot and alcohol are also mind altering drugs, and stop using them. To place an arbitrary distinction between alcohol, pot, and whatever else, is hypocrisy. Since this is clearly being done already, I vote for a policy of damage containment rather than eradication. Transform the crack and heroin addicts into people the society can accept an integrate. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,088 #66 June 30, 2003 >yes If you think the government should encourage statutory rape in the hopes of reducing teen pregnancy, we're simply living in different worlds. Thanks anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #67 June 30, 2003 "I would rather they not do it. If I had my choice where they were going to do it, I'd rather it be in their own home, not in a clinic paid for by the government." I agree. But, the point of this is that someone theorized that the government will save more by providing safe needles and showing addicts how to not spread disease. It’s money we’re already spending so why not use the opportunity to help these people by providing a healthy means. Can we turn a blind eye to this? We don’t learn or help anything by forcing it out. "Take the alternative. Should the government provide dormitories so underage (but consenting) kids can have sex” That was college for most. Not me. Sex in barracks was a dismissal offense. “and provide condoms etc to cut down on teen pregnancy and HIV transmission? " Yes."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #68 June 30, 2003 QuoteWho are the typical users? What kind of back-grounds do they have? Where are the drugs coming from? How can we help this family group type to raise their children with more drug awareness? At what point in their addiction are they receptive to treatment? What are the new drug mixes? Do these people have families that will be affected? These are social issues RELATED to drug use, but then again, why creating drug havens instead of creating real solutions to this problem?__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #69 June 30, 2003 "What is the percentage of girls that got unintentionally pregnant when stoned versus not stoned?" Beats me, but the arguement sounds like BS to me and to all 8 of the females who watched it with me, some of whom smoke occasionally, some who never have/never will. "Alcohol = Teen pregnancy is not BS. I really doubt you haven't seen guys pressuring girls to drink because they want to get laid." VERY VERY VERY TRUE and sad."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #70 June 30, 2003 How do you suggest we create solutions if your only statement is "Drugs are Bad.""I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #71 June 30, 2003 I was wondering if one had to be a current user Or just wanted to try it out once in these places? or maybe get current. Maybe they should start one in California.. let's say Needles, Ca. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #72 June 30, 2003 QuoteSo, what you're saying is people never have sex while high? The commercial says you can get pregnant by smoking pot. I never laughed my ass off so hard the first time I saw that commercial. Last I heard from the Doctor, I had to have sex in order to get pregnant. You can also get pregnant if you dance, or go roller skating (according to the baptists). JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #73 June 30, 2003 QuoteHow do you suggest we create solutions if your only statement is "Drugs are Bad." I mean c'mon, do we really need 'tests' to find that out?, drugs are bad, yes, in few words, why need to elaborate and type pages after pages with charts and stats when WE ALL know the result will be what I said above? We also know MOST of the causes of drug use, we need them all? NO, we have enough, let's start creating a plan to STOP current addicts and possible future addicts.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 June 30, 2003 Quote>yes If you think the government should encourage statutory rape in the hopes of reducing teen pregnancy, we're simply living in different worlds. Thanks anyway. Well, in my world statutory rape is defined as someone above the age of legal consent having someone with sex below that age. Not two people below the age. And also in my world, acknowledgment of human behavior, and trying to mitigate any risks associated with it, instead of pretending it doesn't exist, is a step closer to modifying that behavior. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #75 June 30, 2003 QuoteThese are social issues RELATED to drug use, but then again, why creating drug havens instead of creating real solutions to this problem? What are the real solutions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
