JUNKIES NEED TO SHOOT UP? THEN MOVE TO

[QuickDraw 0]

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I wonder if murder will be legal soon.

Lets hope so, i have a few people lined up for the first production run in my soilent green factory.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[CrazyIvan 0]

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You can’t have that kind of control over your child

That's 100% true, however, if you learn that you child has a problem, you'll help, correct?, that's all I'm saying, my point is, if I had an addiction, I'd rather have someone who tries to get me out of the hole not stay beside me telling go ahead, this needle is clean and no one will bother you.

People with very limited or no money should be helped the same way, to get out of the addiction, not to keep on fueling it, where the money will come from?, can you say Government (like is the case in this article), I mean c'mon, what would you prefer, pay taxes knowing some of that money goes to saving lives or to buy drugs?

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[wmw999 2,560]

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You're acting like doing drugs is a victim-less crime.
...
It absolutely devastates their loved ones who are trying their best to help, it can destroy families and the people in their family's lives.

One of the first things they tell people who are involved with addicts is NOT to allow them to fuck with their lives.

Because you cannot control an addict, you cannot make them get help. Maybe if they're a child, but not always then, either. You can go on with your life, and yes, you hurt for them, but if you're living the best possible life you can, that's actually a stronger incentive for the addict to clean up -- it's something for them to join.

If you allow them to fuck up your life, then that's two lives that are fucked up.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

That's good. And that's easy to say, but IRL its a bit more complicated then that.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DJL 235]

This is becoming a very shortsighted discussion.

The money for all drug treatment comes from donation or from the government. This clinic will help in the study of drug abuse and will help to stop the spread of disease. What is wrong with that?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[CrazyIvan 0]

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This clinic will help in the study of drug abuse and will help to stop the spread of disease

I can tell you right now the results of such study: Drugs ARE BAD for you, there, I've saved tons of money and 'research'.

Stopping the spread of the disease: Better education, EFFECTIVE anti-drugs programs.

Where is the problem?

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[billvon 3,090]

>The money for all drug treatment comes from donation or from the
> government.

No problem there.

>This clinic will help in the study of drug abuse and will help to stop
>the spread of disease. What is wrong with that?

So would killing drug abusers and performing autopsies on them. It would reduce drug abuse and at the same time help the study of it immensely. However, that's a bad idea since the ends do not justify the means, and killing people is considered very bad.

There are many ways of studying drug abuse. Encouraging people to do drugs and thereby helping create more drug users is a poor way of studying it.

[wmw999 2,560]

Yes, I know Dave. Trust me on this, you're not the only one experienced in it.

Do you know anyone who has, by their personal effort, saved another adult who was an addict? Probably not, really. It takes the addict wanting to change. You can't make them want to. The most you can do is remove things until it's uncomfortable enough for them to change. But still, some addicts then take to the streets, or crime. It really sucks.

The intensity of love of a parent for their kid is incredible, and I can't imagine trying to overcome that. I'm glad not to.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

I agree with you here, that the addict has to want to change.

These reasons I've stated are also why I wholly disagree with the "shootup clinics."

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CrazyIvan 0]

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I agree with you here, that the addict has to want to change.

These reasons I've stated are also why I wholly disagree with the "shootup clinics."

I second that.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[DJL 235]

"Encouraging people to do drugs and thereby helping create more drug users is a poor way of studying it."

How are they encouraging drug use?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PhillyKev 0]

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Last I checked, you don't rape yourself.

You're acting like doing drugs is a victim-less crime.

I disagree.

I've had family members addicted to herion before, as well as another guy that was a total coke head. To say that it was a victim-less crime and that they were only hurting themselves would lead me to believe you've never been around this.

It absolutely devastates their loved ones who are trying their best to help, it can destroy families and the people in their family's lives.

So I guess what you're saying is that it is ok to do what you want and not give a fuckall about the people in your life.

(sorry, but obviously this issue has really hit a close-to-home nerve)

Not at all. Trust me, I've seen plenty of it and have been hurt by it as well. A friend from high school got hooked on heroine, his body was found in a dry creek bed 2 years after he disappeared. Would he be alive if he went to a 'safe house' instead of a 'crack house'?

Yes, drug abuse affects others besides the junkie. But what is more devastating? How does forcing that junkie to associate with pushers and gangs make the situation better?

I guarantee there's a better chance someone that makes the effort to go to a safe house instead of a crack house is a step closer to recovery.

All I was trying to illustrate with that post is that a comparison between drug abuse and rape is ridiculous in this context.

[DJL 235]

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Drugs ARE BAD for you

That's very good of you. I'll look forward to reading more of your in depth analysis in the future.

How about:
Who are the typical users?
What kind of back-grounds do they have?
Where are the drugs coming from?
How can we help this family group type to raise their children with more drug awareness?
At what point in their addiction are they receptive to treatment?
What are the new drug mixes?
Do these people have families that will be affected?

The problem is that you do not realize that from this we will become more educated and will be able to educate the group we find to be potential users.

Are you even thinking about this anymore? Is it so hard to change your opinion and realize that there are more circumstances out there than you and your child?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Perhaps an analogy from a whuffo's perspective:

Skydiving often becomes an addiction; there are skydiving addicts.
Skydiving is dangerous, and people often die as a result.
Skydiving is not a victimless crime because it affects the lives of others, such as non-skydiving significant others, and the whole family is affected when skydivers die.
If my child was a skydiver, I'd never allow it; I'd make them stop.
Skydiving should be illegal. By opening drop zones, we are encouraging skydivers to continue their addictions.
Picture this: a young person gets addicted to skydiving and runs away to live on a dropzone. Where is the help? Where is the cure?
I can tell you right now the results of a study on the effects of skydiving: Skydiving IS BAD for you, there, I've saved tons of money and 'research'.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Push 0]

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There are many ways of studying drug abuse. Encouraging people to do drugs and thereby helping create more drug users is a poor way of studying it.

I did not look at the initiative this way. "Safe houses" are the first step to the eradication of drug use. Obviously, if there was a magic wand that we could wave that would heal all the addicts and imprison all the dealers all at once we would just wave it and be done with the problem. Barring that, we must come up with a gradual program that would slowly reduce the harm being caused by the drugs, increase education about the drugs, promote trust in us by the drug users, which will eventually lead to the extinction of drugs as a business. I see this initiative as the first step in this process.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[arlo 0]

where do they get that drug use is encouraged? I don't think the safehouse is encouraging drug use so much as it is helping decrease the spread of HIV and Hep-C (and/or other forms of Hepatitis). i think it's a step in the right direction.

at least it is one part of a multi-staged program aimed at HELPING these people instead of throwing them away as sub-humans.

there is NO simple cure for an addiction.

[billvon 3,090]

>How are they encouraging drug use?

By providing a safe environment to do them in. The fear of getting arrested, getting AIDS, hepatitis etc are all deterrents to drug usage. Removing them encourages people to do it.

[PhillyKev 0]

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The fear of getting arrested, getting AIDS, hepatitis etc are all deterrents to drug usage.

Are they effective deterrents? Prove it.

[billvon 3,090]

>"Safe houses" are the first step to the eradication of drug use.

Are smoking rooms the first step to elimination of smoking? Are legal BASE sites the first step towards elimination of BASE? Are bars the first step towards elimination of alcoholism? Odd statement.

>Barring that, we must come up with a gradual program that would
> slowly reduce the harm being caused by the drugs . . . .

If it was part of a program to wean people from drugs, or require them to go into treatment programs, I'd agree with it. If it is simply a place to do drugs without fear of legal repercussions, then it will kill more people than it will save by encouraging people to use drugs. The dangers of arrest, hepatitis or AIDS are not the primary danger of doing IV heroin.

[billvon 3,090]

>Are they effective deterrents? Prove it.

In college I saw half a dozen attempts to do drugs (sitting in cars, out in back etc) thwarted by seeing a police officer. Police officers arrest you if they see you do drugs, and once arrested you cannot physically do drugs.

[DJL 235]

"The fear of getting arrested, getting AIDS, hepatitis etc are all deterrents to drug usage. Removing them encourages people to do it."

This is like that commercial where the daughter gets pregnant becaue she did pot. It goes to show how blind the government is to drug use.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[AggieDave 6]

So, what you're saying is people never have sex while high?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DJL 235]

"In college I saw half a dozen attempts to do drugs (sitting in cars, out in back etc) thwarted by seeing a police officer. Police officers arrest you if they see you do drugs, and once arrested you cannot physically do drugs. "

What, so they never did drugs again? Or did they go someplace where they wouldn't be disturbed by the police.?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PhillyKev 0]

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Are smoking rooms the first step to elimination of smoking? Are legal BASE sites the first step towards elimination of BASE? Are bars the first step towards elimination of alcoholism? Odd statement.

Invalid comparison. The other choice for those activities does not include associating with armed criminals, gang members, rapists, robbers and other general opportunists.

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If it is simply a place to do drugs without fear of legal repercussions, then it will kill more people than it will save by encouraging people to use drugs. The dangers of arrest, hepatitis or AIDS are not the primary danger of doing IV heroin.

A minute ago you said they were the main deterrent, now they're not the main danger? You're right. They're not. Addiction and the results of that are the main danger, but that's not a working deterrent. So how does reducing these other risks encourage use? They're not deterring it now.

[billvon 3,090]

>What, so they never did drugs again? Or did they go someplace
>where they wouldn't be disturbed by the police.?

They did drugs again, they just didn't do them that night. If they could have walked down the street to a government safe house they would have done them a lot more often.